A new grad, young nurse landed her DREAM job. Or what she thought would be her dream job in ICU. After orientation and on her own, she quit and said she thought she was dangerous and could kill a patient. The training was poor and the bullying was second to worst I have seen. That day she went home and gave up her life. Later, her parents notified the floor/ unit.
Now, obviously not every nurse under these circumstances has the same outcome. But, what can be done to change the (mean-girl- middle school) culture on floor? Who do you complain to? Who recognizes this as an issue with not just that nurse but many whom have left the floor for the same reasons?
How do you cope, who should be there to help nurses cope? Has this happened where you work?
In the 25 years I've worked where I've worked, we've had one known suicide. His wasn't related to being a new grad. We do have the issues of stress, burnout and high turnover.
Nursing schools should do a better job at preparing new grads for the real world. They are sheltered by their teachers and sometimes even during their final preceptorship. I do a lot of precepting and almost always they want to just shadow or take one patient. I go "no, put up your phone, roll up your sleeves and take a patient assignment that will challenge you. By the end of your preceptorship you're going to take a full load (with me beside you) and be ready for the real world.
When work orientation is over, it's over, and you're on your own and you're coworkers are going to be deep in the weeds themselves and can't always be there. This is a very cruel transition sometimes, but put on your big people panties and go for the ride. Ask for what you need.
I can't address lateral violence because fortunately that doesn't go on on my unit. I will say many new grads are sometimes too raw and sensitive and describe "did you see how she yelled at me???". Me: Yes, and that wasn't "yelling" that was her giving you information about something you did wrong. Yelling is raising your voice and she didn't do that.
Disclaimer: I never said lateral violence doesn't happen or isn't a problem.
You sound exactly like my preceptor. Although, she did give me a choice on my first day if I wanted to shadow or jump in. Wasn't even a question for me. Took the full patient load on day one and never looked back. Of course I asked hundreds of questions throughout because I knew better than to play chicken with a patient's life, and I always reached out to her when I needed help. Unless I was drowning, I always wanted the first crack at every procedure. Later on towards the end of my orientation, my preceptor basically said she was relieved because she couldn't stand new grads that wanted to stand around and watch.
I'm sure I got lucky because I got paired up with someone with similar personalities and styles, but I'm told that ED is a place for certain personalities. It's not for everyone, but boy is it rewarding for those of us that thrive in this environment.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
, but what is more benevolent here: asking nurses to be more supportive of each other or telling new grads to suck it up?
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I think it depends. If you have a drama queen of a new grad, you sometimes have to tell them to suck it up. Some are energy-suckers and have no intention of trying and your benevolence is taken for weakness. The young sometimes do eat the old, not just the other way around.....either way,that I can't stand....
Others, yes, I hold hands and guide them gently. But just like my kids, at some point they have to own what is their problem, or shortcoming, and make gestures to fit in, not try to get others to fit into THEIR idea of how things should be. Workplace cultures vary but one person is not gonna change everything single-handedly, which is why I have said in the past, if yours is toxic, you have to get out for your own wellbeing.
So I am split. In some cases, handholding is needed. But others, yes, they need to "buck up" cause nursing is not, nor will it ever be, easy.
Specializes in Family Medicine, Tele/Cardiac, Camp.
My heart goes out to you, Shelby. I hope you don't suffer too much this winter. I have a history of problematic depression and it really got me down. I have to stay on top of my meds and use a SAD lamp in winter.
I feel for anyone suffering depression. It can be debilitating and isolating.
Three cheers for the SAD lamps. Mine helps immensely to give me that extra something in the winter when I need to supplement my meds. It does make me a little euphoric/hyper at times, but I'd definitely take that over depressed and suicidal.
I wish everyone good mental health as the days get even shorter.
The floowing link has some good references on the topic.
Interesting, but the article presents no data that new nurses are actually committing suicide in significant numbers, or that this has become "a trend."
I have had multiple episodes of being bullied by management. Guess who you report that to? No one. Because managers manager protects them. The situations would make your hair curl.
I've never become depressed or contemplated suicide. At the end of the day it's a job and I can separate from that. I'm also extremely resilient and a fighter. However I worry about how most people respond to this. I can definitely see depression, PTSD and suicide as a common thread...
I think most people agree that bullying us wrong and we say we won't but things happen and sometimes you don't realize you're bullying. Sometimes you just don't jive well with people. I think intensive psych testing needs to be done prior to license acquisition that way power tripping individuals who put people down for their personal gain would be axed from nursing. It takes a special kind of person to be that disturbed.
Honestly being unsupported is the worst feeling ever. We all need to support one another in lifelong learning that accompanied the profession and respect everyone's role and unique attributes we bring to the table.
Three cheers for the SAD lamps. Mine helps immensely to give me that extra something in the winter when I need to supplement my meds. It does make me a little euphoric/hyper at times, but I'd definitely take that over depressed and suicidal.
I wish everyone good mental health as the days get even shorter.
Yes, planning on getting some and surrounding myself soon, especially now that I work nights! I've been meaning to look into this. Thank you for the kind thoughts.
Below is copied from Pubmed, and is just one of dozens of studies confirming higher risk of suicide among nurses.
To dismiss this topic as not valid because the person referred to it as a "trend" is splitting hairs. I also would like to add, many of the replies on this thread, and others, scream of passive agressive anger and the down right nastiness, and bullying that is pervasive in our profession today. So many of you can't even see it, but the tone of your replies, on this whole site frankly, reveals it all. That is a bunch of burned out, jaded, passive agressive, miserable nurses. Yep, I said it, and the lateral violence has to stop. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen, and stop taking out your stress and lousy attitudes on each other. It's about the patients after all, and I know you transfer that lousy attitude to everyone you work with and treat. One rotten apple spoils the whole bunch. Best of all, you will prove my point when you reply to this post. Guarantee 99% of the responses are negative and hostile. Just like the same negativity you dish out every day when you go to work and perpetuate lateral violence, but claim it's not an issue. For the nurses who can identify with my feelings in this post, put your foot down, speak up. This practice has to stop. It's time we come together; after all we need each other for support because nursing is not going to get any easier and the profession is suffering. We need to start supporting each other, instead of undermining one another. Ok, let the raging, angry replies begin!
1. Crisis. 2015 Feb 23:1-11. [Epub ahead of print]
I find it quite troubling the way many of you are referring to this topic, especially the OP. Saying is suicide "a trend among new nurses who can't cope" is quite degrading (to the nurse who committed suicide) as well as not backed up by evidence (that it is a trend). Many people discuss how they had poor situations as a new nurse but "were strong enough" or "resilient enough" to get through them. Others discuss how "this generation" is brought up to get a trophy for everything and they never learned how to deal with failure.
All of these attitudes are troubling to me.
-1) Inferring that those who struggle with mental health issues are not strong or resilient perpetuates a stigma that mental health issues are an issue of character or being weak, etc. This is obviously not true, and if you had ever struggled with mental health issues maybe you would not make these type of statements.. One can be very strong and/or resilient but deep depression or other issues can basically take everything you once were away from you.
-2) Yes some of the younger generation have been brought up in that way, but it is very dismissive and short sighted to try to pin suicide in that age category on how they were raised. Unless you knew the family personally and intimately how do you know if they were sheltered from failure? Not every family raised their children this way in this cohort.
There are many issues at play with mental health issues including genetics, possibly past trauma, etc etc etc. To see nurses sit here and make these types of wild judgements and statements is very unprofessional in my opinion and frankly, quite disappointing to read. Shows how much work still needs to be done education wise re: depression and suicide prevention if this is the attitude even many nurses seem to hold.
Think of this scenario for a minute. If you heard this type of conversation happening (for arguments sake lets say it was nurses in the break room instead of in an online forum) and you were a new nurse struggling with depression and suicidal ideation how would you feel? Would you ever reach out to your co workers for help or would you further try to bury your struggles and possibly put yourself further at risk? Now I'm sure the answer many will have to this is you should not reach out to coworkers but instead family, etc. But my point is that you are further stigmatizing these issues and when someone is in a deep depression hearing judgements like this from nurses could make them less likely to open up to ANYONE, which many times is what may end up saving their lives.
Below is copied from Pubmed, and is just one of dozens of studies confirming higher risk of suicide among nurses.
To dismiss this topic as not valid because the person referred to it as a "trend" is splitting hairs. I also would like to add, many of the replies on this thread, and others, scream of passive agressive anger and the down right nastiness, and bullying that is pervasive in our profession today. So many of you can't even see it, but the tone of your replies, on this whole site frankly, reveals it all. That is a bunch of burned out, jaded, passive agressive, miserable nurses. Yep, I said it, and the lateral violence has to stop. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen, and stop taking out your stress and lousy attitudes on each other. It's about the patients after all, and I know you transfer that lousy attitude to everyone you work with and treat. One rotten apple spoils the whole bunch. Best of all, you will prove my point when you reply to this post. Guarantee 99% of the responses are negative and hostile. Just like the same negativity you dish out every day when you go to work and perpetuate lateral violence, but claim it's not an issue. For the nurses who can identify with my feelings in this post, put your foot down, speak up. This practice has to stop. It's time we come together; after all we need each other for support because nursing is not going to get any easier and the profession is suffering. We need to start supporting each other, instead of undermining one another. Ok, let the raging, angry replies begin!
1. Crisis. 2015 Feb 23:1-11. [Epub ahead of print]
Critical Review on Suicide Among Nurses.
DOI: 10.1027/0227-5910/a000305
PMID: 25708252 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
You don't internet much, do you.
This is kind of the tone that i see as very normal across the many forums I've participated in since I was 14 years old. Horse ones, nurse ones, wedding ones, baby ones, general interest ones. People tend to be pretty blunt. I personally prefer bluntness to handling everyone with kid gloves and beating around the bush. True cruelty is still very much frowned upon pretty much everywhere but maybe the more darker corners of 4chan.
To act like we should all agree on everything (or at least, all agree on your opinion) just because we're all nurses or all mothers or whatever is infantilizing. I didn't see nastiness or passive aggressiveness (though I missed seeing the thread before it got cleaned up, I'm sure due to true cruelty as described above from spouse). The attitude that I do see here that troubles me, shown in the very title of this thread, is that the nurse in question came to the fate that she did because she was weak of character or a trend within a certain generation. You are seemingly here not for a discussion, but for head pats for bringing this issue to light. Questioning articles, studies, etc is a good sign that there is some critical thinking going on, which is essential for nursing.
I appreciate the study but it sounds like its main conclusion is "there are not enough studies and there should be more". Not exactly groundbreaking.
Edit: reading the post I quoted I thought it was OP, and I went back to check, and it isn't. My apologies. The rest of my post still stands I think.
I looked up studies for suicides among professions and this is one study that I found:
Several occupations with the highest suicide rates (per 100 000 population) during 1979–1980 and 1982–1983, including veterinarians (ranked first), pharmacists (fourth), dentists (sixth), doctors (tenth) and farmers (thirteenth), have easy occupational access to a method of suicide (pharmaceuticals or guns). By 2001–2005, there had been large significant reductions in suicide rates for each of these occupations, so that none ranked in the top 30 occupations. Occupations with significant increases over time in suicide rates were all manual occupations whereas occupations with suicide rates that decreased were mainly professional or non-manual. Variation in suicide rates that was explained by socio-economic group almost doubled over time from 11.4% in 1979–1980 and 1982–1983 to 20.7% in 2001–2005.
This study is from the NIH of a retrospective study published in 2012. Perhaps the "trend" the OP is discussing is anecdotal?
I've been a nurse for 24 years and worked in some high stress areas (ED, ICU, pre-hospital). I personally found increased stress working in the level one ED. However, in the 10 years I worked there, I did know of any suicides among our staff.
Interesting that there is no (that I saw) mention of police and firefighters in those jobs listed in the graphic. I have a friend very high up in the our state fire service and they are seeing different (higher) stats regarding fire department/EMS/police.
supakimchee
35 Posts
You sound exactly like my preceptor. Although, she did give me a choice on my first day if I wanted to shadow or jump in. Wasn't even a question for me. Took the full patient load on day one and never looked back. Of course I asked hundreds of questions throughout because I knew better than to play chicken with a patient's life, and I always reached out to her when I needed help. Unless I was drowning, I always wanted the first crack at every procedure. Later on towards the end of my orientation, my preceptor basically said she was relieved because she couldn't stand new grads that wanted to stand around and watch.
I'm sure I got lucky because I got paired up with someone with similar personalities and styles, but I'm told that ED is a place for certain personalities. It's not for everyone, but boy is it rewarding for those of us that thrive in this environment.