Student nurse, What I saw very upset....

misschelei · Sep 30, 2005

Wow that sounds very dramatic! Is the patient able to complain if he felt mistreated through some other means of communication? Or are we talking about someone who is unable to advocate for himself?

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Sep 30, 2005

Did not numb it, spray anything on it, did not tell pt what was going to happen just rammed it through......finally.

I thought i was going to vomit when i read this (all of it really).

The sad thing is, had this pt. had the ability to scream, that MIGHT have affected whether the pt. received any numbing medication or not.:angryfire

This isn't the first time i've heard of a mannerism this barbaric. There were stories (that made it to the paper after the doctor was sued) about a surgeon who wouldn't numb the site where an incision for a G-tube was made, and the pt. was given sedation. Needless to say, that pointy 11 scalpel blade was felt, as evidenced by the pt. thrashing and the tears that rolled from his eyes. He later said that he felts all of the pain "on his belly." I feel lucky that i never have to ask the surgeons if they want anything to numb with, they are very insistent on pt. comfort!

But if ever see such happening, you can bet i'll report it.

One of the nurses should have spoke up for the pt. you are speaking of and asked if the doctor would like some lidocaine (or similar) for the pt.

And i think the only reasons why the instructor is saying nothing can be done is that she didn't see what happened, and that there's a good chance that the two nurses might go against the words of a nursing student. Definately not saying it's right, i'm just trying to think of a reason why she would say that.

crb613, BSN, RN · Sep 30, 2005

And i think the only reasons why the instructor is saying nothing can be done is that she didn't see what happened, and that there's a good chance that the two nurses might go against the words of a nursing student. Definately not saying it's right, i'm just trying to think of a reason why she would say that.

She said, "There was nothing I could have done about it." My instructor was just outside the door on her way in as I came out. I don't know if she did or said something or not........she is a very tough lady w/alot of experience so maybe that's why I felt the chill in the air, when I returned. When I said the nurse's held the pt's hands I should clarify....They did not just use brute force but, did keep then down never the less. One nurse was patting the pt's hand after the fact. I have not been able to speak to my instructor alone yet but I am going to......I need to know what I can do in the future as a student & a human that does have compassion & feelings for those unable to speak for themselves. I know I will never let anything like this happen in my presence again student or not...........If I am kicked out of school for speaking up then so be it, I feel like I was a partner to this & it's an awful feeling.

DianeS, RN · Sep 30, 2005

I was crying by the time I finished reading this. :crying2:

I am so sorry that you had to go through this. Nobody, not you or the patient, should have had to experience this. :angryfire I would suggest talking to your instructor and expressing your concerns. We are always thought to be the patient advocate.

Was this patient unable to communicate otherwise? Somebody needs to stick up for the patient.

God bless you for your compassion. I hope this does not turn you away from the nursing profession.

Keep up your kindess.

Hugs to you!

crb613, BSN, RN · Sep 30, 2005

I was crying by the time I finished reading this.
I am so sorry that you had to go through this. Nobody, not you or the patient, should have had to experience this. :angryfire I would suggest talking to your instructor and expressing your concerns. We are always thought to be the patient advocate.
Was this patient unable to communicate otherwise? Somebody needs to stick up for the patient.
God bless you for your compassion. I hope this does not turn you away from the nursing profession.
Keep up your kindess.
Hugs to you!

Thank you, but I don't feel kind...I feel like I was part of this. This pt can't speak because of the larnyx just being removed. It was just done ~2 wks ago. I communicated with this pt with pen/paper/lip reading. I will say this is the first time I have even considered not being a nurse....If this is nursing then no I do not want to be one, but I do not think this is what it's about just the oppsite. In the brief time w/instructor I did say exactly what you commented on....I thought we were taught to be an advocate for the pt....she replied you are a student.....the RN should have spoken up. Well

neither one of them did.I can't just pass the buck & go on like it was all some else's fault, I was there too. I should have said/done something when I figured out what was happening.I just couldn't comphrend that this Dr was actually doing this. I have prayed to God to forgive me & help this poor pt. I will never forget the look in this pt's eyes.

misschelei · Sep 30, 2005

It sounds like this patient was really hurt. Why did he not complain? That's what I would want to get to the bottom of then take it from there. This is a personal choice. You have to decide how far you are willing to go with this and consider the potential consequences. The best advice I ever got from my preceptor as new grad was "Choose your battles wisely."

Don't let this scare you off from nursing. You will be a good nurse.

crb613, BSN, RN · Sep 30, 2005

It sounds like this patient was really hurt. Why did he not complain? That's what I would want to get to the bottom of then take it from there. This is a personal choice. You have to decide how far you are willing to go with this and consider the potential consequences. The best advice I ever got from my preceptor as new grad was "Choose your battles wisely."
Don't let this scare you off from nursing. You will be a good nurse.

Could you please tell me something, is this common for the site not to be numbed or the pt pre-medicated? I was told by someone from the ER that it would be worse to use a needle to numb the site 1st??????? I don't know if the pt will complain or not I hope they will. This pt is intelligent & kind but is a little older & maybe has the idea the Dr will do what is best. I can tell you that I will if asked, back the pt up if they do complain. I have even considered advising the pt of this myself. Thank you for saying I will be a good nurse.

Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN · Sep 30, 2005

It's not common for it not to be numbed at the facility where i work.

SouthernLPN2RN, MSN, RN, APRN, NP · Sep 30, 2005

Could you please tell me something, is this common for the site not to be numbed or the pt pre-medicated? I was told by someone from the ER that it would be worse to use a needle to numb the site 1st??????? I don't know if the pt will complain or not I hope they will. This pt is intelligent & kind but is a little older & maybe has the idea the Dr will do what is best. I can tell you that I will if asked, back the pt up if they do complain. I have even considered advising the pt of this myself. Thank you for saying I will be a good nurse.

In some cases, the injected lidocaine may cause unwanted swelling, but they could always use some type of topical instead. This pt was treated horribly and that doc needs his crack cleaned out with a pointy-toed boot.

CrunchRN, ADN, RN · Sep 30, 2005

This type of thing is exactly why we do need you to become a nurse. I don't know how this should have been done, but a little explanation and compassion, and a chance for the patient to write down their wishes in the matter should have happened at the very least.

Please do not let this sour you on nursing. That patient needs someone like you. This is not your battle. It was up to the nurses involved to advocate for this patient. Report it to your instructor and let her deal with it. When you are a nurse I expect that something like this will never occur on your shift.

Best of luck, and I would definitely want you to be my nurse.

crb613, BSN, RN · Sep 30, 2005

Please do not let this sour you on nursing. That patient needs someone like you. This is not your battle. It was up to the nurses involved to advocate for this patient. Report it to your instructor and let her deal with it. When you are a nurse I expect that something like this will never occur on your shift.
Best of luck, and I would definitely want you to be my nurse.

Thank you, and you are mighty right....I will be like a pit bull having a bad day!