Online vs Traditional NP school

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  1. In your opinion is online NP School

    • 3
      ...better than the traditional option? (Please explain your answer in the thread.)
    • 3
      ... the same as the traditional option? (Please explain your answer in the thread.)
    • 19
      ... not as good as the traditional option? (Please explain your answer in the thread.)
    • 14
      I studied/am studying on line.
    • 12
      I studied / am studying in a traditional setting.

28 members have participated

Let me start by saying that I am an older, retired PMHNP and there was no online training when I was in grad school. (Shoot, there was barely an internet!)

Secondly, let me say that I am putting this out as an honest question. I'm interested in the answer, in hearing different opinions, in learning. I am very open to having my ideas challenged, my opinion changed.

So tell me - is the quality of NP training in an online school as good as you would get at a traditional university school of nursing? Are students challenged, encouraged, mentored? Is the material you study cutting edge, standard of practice? As a student, do you invest as much energy and oomph in studying for an online course as you would in a traditional one? Do you feel that you are really learning or do you feel that you are studying "to the exam"?

I am asking because I know that my MSN/NP training was as challenging and difficult as my BSN, maybe even more so - just in a different way. I had to learn to assess, think and make clinical decisions in a very different way than I did as a bedside/floor nurse, and I am wondering how an NP student can make that transition in an online learning environment.

Thanks for your patience with this old broad's questions!

Even though the content is online for online programs, clinicals are still done in person. I'm a huge advocate of online learning if done correctly - there is no difference in watching lectures online vs in person, and for me it would allow extra time that would be spent commuting to be used for studying.

The asynchronous programs do bother me though. I think watching live classes streamed onto your laptop is fine, but going through some pre assembled class in a box and completing modules at your own pace does not lend itself well to retention.

elkpark

14,633 Posts

Even though the content is online for online programs, clinicals are still done in person.

Yes, but ... So many of the on-line programs allow (or require, and offer no assistance) students to find their own preceptors, which really bothers me. In my graduate program, all the practica were done with instructors who were full- or part-time faculty in the school of nursing, in facilities with which the school had ongoing professional relationships. The school knew (and vouched for) exactly what caliber/quality of clinical experience and education we were getting. If I'm a student in some town in another state, I may be lucky to find anyone willing to precept me, and there's no guarantee that individual is going to be a good teacher, or even a good clinician, for that matter. Students in these programs may be getting a very poor quality clinical education, and are typically not in a position to even realize that's the case. Some schools apparently make some small effort to verify that the local preceptors are minimally qualified (e.g., verify their credentials), but some don't even do that; they basically take the student's word that the required hours of clinical education have been completed. Totally apart from the issue that these programs are charging full-time tuition to the students but only offering half the education (leaving them to beg for someone to please provide the rest of it for them), where's the "quality control"?

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Corey Narry, MSN, RN, NP

8 Articles; 4,362 Posts

Specializes in ACNP-BC, Adult Critical Care, Cardiology.
Totally apart from the issue that these programs are charging full-time tuition to the students but only offering half the education (leaving them to beg for someone to please provide the rest of it for them), where's the "quality control"?

Sounds like this "innovative" idea of online education right at your backyard is a win-win in terms of revenue with minimum effort from the school.

Yes, but ... So many of the on-line programs allow (or require, and offer no assistance) students to find their own preceptors, which really bothers me. In my graduate program, all the practica were done with instructors who were full- or part-time faculty in the school of nursing, in facilities with which the school had ongoing professional relationships. The school knew (and vouched for) exactly what caliber/quality of clinical experience and education we were getting. If I'm a student in some town in another state, I may be lucky to find anyone willing to precept me, and there's no guarantee that individual is going to be a good teacher, or even a good clinician, for that matter. Students in these programs may be getting a very poor quality clinical education, and are typically not in a position to even realize that's the case. Some schools apparently make some small effort to verify that the local preceptors are minimally qualified (e.g., verify their credentials), but some don't even do that; they basically take the student's word that the required hours of clinical education have been completed. Totally apart from the issue that these programs are charging full-time tuition to the students but only offering half the education (leaving them to beg for someone to please provide the rest of it for them), where's the "quality control"?

You are correct here and I think this is one of the biggest college schemes in recent memory. Many of these online programs are charging tens of thousands of dollars in tuition and for what? They don't offer any labs or clinical experience, and the classes are already preassembled. There is literally no expenditure by the school, which is probably why many of these programs have a 100% acceptance rate.

I'm very, very disappointed by the higher ups in nursing education. I would love to know why they aren't putting their foot down and stopping this, but I suspect there is some sort of ulterior motive or kickback scheme going on. They should at the very least demand online schools provide preceptors or at least vet and train them. I cannot comprehend why the NP organizations seem to be fine with creating a new generation of NPs with completely watered down educations. They are focusing on quantity over quality and eventually it will be the downfall of the profession. You have new, barely trained NPs acting as preceptor for students, who then go on to precept and so on and so on until you practically have students precepting students.

As a pre NP student I have spent hours researching programs. I have applied to my local B and M schools and hope to go there if possible, but they are competitive and I have applied to online programs as I back up. Every school I have applied to, I have spoken with the administration and poured over the curriculum. I have asked about the mode of delivery and exactly what is taught during on campus time. I beg other future NPs to do this because the time of employers just worrying about whether or not you have a pulse and a license is over. The field is becoming saturated and competition for jobs is becoming fierce. In this sort of market I can guarantee it will be the UPenn, UCSF, Columbia, etc grads who will get the jobs while the Kaplan and Walden students will be left scrounging for what's left. Look at the law field if you want proof.

having said this, I understand everyone has different circumstances and I respect anyone's decision to go to graduate school, no matter what type if school. I just don't want people to get suckered in by savvy marketing and make what could be a bad decision. I just want everyone to succeed and help prop up the profession by being high quality providers. :)

2015

140 Posts

I am attending an online school and I have learned so much in three weeks. The async lectures take forever to go through especially for Patho, but then again, this is extra material that I would normally not have in a traditional B&M. I can pause, forward, rewind as much as I want. Our live lectures are also recorded so I can go back and go over the recordings again. Traditionally, I would read the assigned chapters and attend a lecture. But now, the async lectures help me understand the assigned readings better. I come to the live lectures well prepared. Classes are 8-12 students. I can almost get that one on one attention. Each class has office hours where I can have a live interaction with my professor regarding anything to do with class work. The school find preceptors for me, and my first clinical rotation will be literally next to my house. We record videos weekly on clinical skills and send them for assessment. We have on campus intensive where we will brush up on skills before going out to clinicals. I have kids and this works so well for me. Like it or not, online education is the future of education. The good B&M schools are already doing most of their courses online already. It's only a matter of time before everything goes online. It's up to the student to find a good online school. Our live sessions are very interactive. You don't just come to class and sit and listen. Questions are asked that you must answer in a substantive manner. Otherwise you lose points on participation. We have weekly quizes for two of my classes and the quizes are taken before lectures begin. So you have to read, read and read some more to be better prepared.

zmansc, ASN, RN

867 Posts

Specializes in Emergency.

For me there wasn't a choice of B&M school, none within three hours drive and my family limits me from relocating. So, the question was how do I make sure the online program is going to be able to produce a quality education that I can be confident in. I did a couple of things. First, I networked with the local providers, several of which were preceptors for certain programs. I discussed the strengths and weakness of the programs from their perspectives. Which programs they felt were providing the support to the students that would ensure they got a good clinical experience. Secondly, I researched those programs, both for their clinical support structure and for how they approached the online learning environment. Third, I discussed the programs with recent grads, or students who were in their final semester at programs, both locally and over the phone to find out what they felt were the strengths and weaknesses of the programs.

Yes, there are bad online programs, ones that provide little to no support and take alot of money from their students. If the student makes it, it is because of their dedication and hard work alone. But there are also very good online programs. Should someone (accreditation agencies) be more dedicated to weeding out bad programs? Absolutely. But I think there is a huge need for online and remote learning programs as many of my cohorts are from locations like mine where they would not be able to pursue an APRN education any other way.

For me there wasn't a choice of B&M school, none within three hours drive and my family limits me from relocating. So, the question was how do I make sure the online program is going to be able to produce a quality education that I can be confident in. I did a couple of things. First, I networked with the local providers, several of which were preceptors for certain programs. I discussed the strengths and weakness of the programs from their perspectives. Which programs they felt were providing the support to the students that would ensure they got a good clinical experience. Secondly, I researched those programs, both for their clinical support structure and for how they approached the online learning environment. Third, I discussed the programs with recent grads, or students who were in their final semester at programs, both locally and over the phone to find out what they felt were the strengths and weaknesses of the programs.

Yes, there are bad online programs, ones that provide little to no support and take alot of money from their students. If the student makes it, it is because of their dedication and hard work alone. But there are also very good online programs. Should someone (accreditation agencies) be more dedicated to weeding out bad programs? Absolutely. But I think there is a huge need for online and remote learning programs as many of my cohorts are from locations like mine where they would not be able to pursue an APRN education any other way.

I certainly agree with you and have nothing against online programs. I just think the accreditation boards have done a very bad job at ensuring all programs are high quality. I don't think should allow for-profit programs to exist at all for NP. I also think they should force schools to fully vet and train local preceptors. I think those in charge are really dropping the ball and there are far too many "I failed the AANP" threads for my liking.

zmansc, ASN, RN

867 Posts

Specializes in Emergency.
I certainly agree with you and have nothing against online programs. I just think the accreditation boards have done a very bad job at ensuring all programs are high quality. I don't think should allow for-profit programs to exist at all for NP. I also think they should force schools to fully vet and train local preceptors. I think those in charge are really dropping the ball and there are far too many "I failed the AANP" threads for my liking.

No disagreement here. I think there is room for much improvement in many areas, curriculum, preceptors, etc. I will reserve my suggestions on this front until after I've completed my program though.

sarahh23

2 Posts

Hi! Late to the conversation, any update to those who did the online NP? Where did you go? Did you feel like you received a solid education? How about those in a traditional setting? Any schools that you would recommend?

BirkieGirl

306 Posts

I get the best of both worlds- I'm in a Half+Half Program. We are online for some classes (mostly the early course work) and on campus at the university for some classes. It makes a different for ME because my school lines up preceptors and we have our professors available to us to meet face to face when necessary. I'm a very hands on/kinesthetic type learner so it was important for me to have that.

Also, I REALLY feel strongly that the support you get from your classmates is unmatched at a B&M school. My classmates and I have study groups, some of us work together, and we meet at the nearby pub for quick test reviews, etc.

I went to a large Midwestern Big 10 University for my undergrad in the very early 1990s so I guess that for me, this aspect is very nostalgic and makes me feel like part of a larger mission.

Online can be great too, and I'm glad that people like a pp above can have that option if there is no B&M school near them, as everybody who WANTS to pursue graduate education should be able to. However for ME, I prefer the face to face.

casias12

101 Posts

Specializes in Cardiology nurse practitioner.

I graduated from an online program that was supported through a large university nursing program. The adjunct professors were ad-junk. The bulk of the courses were online forum questions, pitting students against each other without any instructor involvement. I could write 'Mickey Mouse is my favorite cardiologist", and click "submit", and I would receive credit. The quality of the conversations in these forums completely lacked substance, and threads often broke down to personal attacks or petty disagreements.

As for grades. Our professors would add points to everyone's test scores if there were laggards. They seemed interested in keeping people enrolled. An attempt to generate profit? Probably.

I had to find my own preceptors, which wasn't a problem since I know so many who were willing. But, during my clinical hours, my preceptors did not receive one phone call or email from the adjunct who monitored my hours. I could have faked the entire experience and signed the hours sheet myself. No one would have known the difference. But they know that asking too much from potential volunteer preceptors will cause them to drop the student, or not accept new students. So they just let everything slide.

As for me, I would not precept an online student. After completing my degree, I think it is bad practice for our profession to allow so many online programs to operate this way. All I can say to future NP's: be careful. Employers are starting to become aware of low-quality NP's coming into the profession, and will not interview you if you have a degree from one of these programs. So, you may end up with a dead-end career.

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