Let me start by saying that I am an older, retired PMHNP and there was no online training when I was in grad school. (Shoot, there was barely an internet!)
Secondly, let me say that I am putting this out as an honest question. I'm interested in the answer, in hearing different opinions, in learning. I am very open to having my ideas challenged, my opinion changed.
So tell me - is the quality of NP training in an online school as good as you would get at a traditional university school of nursing? Are students challenged, encouraged, mentored? Is the material you study cutting edge, standard of practice? As a student, do you invest as much energy and oomph in studying for an online course as you would in a traditional one? Do you feel that you are really learning or do you feel that you are studying "to the exam"?
I am asking because I know that my MSN/NP training was as challenging and difficult as my BSN, maybe even more so - just in a different way. I had to learn to assess, think and make clinical decisions in a very different way than I did as a bedside/floor nurse, and I am wondering how an NP student can make that transition in an online learning environment.
Thanks for your patience with this old broad's questions!
I'm in an online program for grad school and to be honest, I think it's more challenging (I'm learning far far more in a shorter space of time) than my undergrad BSN. We have the asynchronous material, but we also have class weekly with a professor who goes over the content we covered that week, which I love. I love going to class because it solidifies everything I read about, viewed powerpoints on, researched, for that week and helps tie it all in. It's the first semester and I feel like my mind has already been open to things I wasn't aware of. My experiences as a med-surg rn now makes more sense. They also find your clinical preceptors for you, etc so I do feel comfortable and confident that by the time I finish this program, I'll be ready.
Now, my issue with grad school is the same issue I've had with almost every nursing program. I understand the value of research and the desire to advance the nursing profession but sometimes I feel like it's a lot of filler courses. I also wish that we could have more clinicals. This program does offer quite a few clinicals hours but I think the time we spend "in the field" really does help to produce more confident Nurses/Nurse Practitioners who are familiar with their role. So the more time/hours, the better I think.
The students with less RN experience probably benefit from a traditional brick and mortar setting where those with extensive nursing background do not need as much hand holding.
Specializes in ICU, Telemetry, Cardiac/Renal, Ortho,FNP.
Hmm...I've done several programs both campus and online. Online is challenging in a different way but I like it more b/c it's focused on the important stuff for competency, not the minutia that some professor told you to remember for the test just to make sure you were listening. Support? Not so much...mine was through a traditional university and the support sucked, plain and simple. However, they did show empathy and that's always nice...being sarcastic. Bottom line is you learn what you learn mostly on your own anyway so why sit in a chair for an hour to know what you can in 20 minutes? Distance ed. done right is more effective and a better value I think. But you have to be a self determined, self disciplined type student. Classroom environment you can snooze (literally) every now and again...online and nobody cares except you when you FAIL!
This is an old thread but I want to chime in. Online school sucks and the one I am going to do not have lectures just tons and tons of materials that I need to read and discussion board and case study with groups. The clinical is in person but and there is a clinical preceptor but there is no discussion of any cases you see in practice, only that she corrects one soap note every 8 hours of clinical. If you learn through audio visual materials, online school is not for you. For my first test in Adult I, I studied the school textbook, Fitzgerald, Liek, Hollier, Barkley and read through FNP guidelines books. It is too much! The lack of guidance is frustrating and challenging and I am at the end of my wits that I regret going through an online program. I am studying constantly and then I have clinicals and that is also frustrating because the practicum occurs while learning the didactic making a NP student quite stupid especially when one follows an MD. This is a nightmare.
If you want an anecdotal argument for the declination of nursing education, have a look at some of the different forums that have actual, certified nurse practitioners. Please, have a look at the spelling and grammar.
Please note, I'm not talking about those that are joking or having a good time. I am talking about the nurse practitioners that struggle with some of the basics of the English language.
I'm not saying we need to be posting in freaking APA format...but seriously....
I attended a mostly online program. We had to attend campus for skills/procedure training, but not for actual lectures. The lecture type material was a variety of things: recorded lectures, podcasts, powerpoint presentations, etc. The assignments were, well, what I expect most folks had to do: some various written reports/reviews on health conditions/topics, independent research, community projects completed by networking with providers and leaders in our geographic location, and some collaborative group assignments (which were the most annoying, truly). We had practice tests and reading assignments and whatnot. When we took an exam, we had to do so either at a proctored exam site, or we could take the exam at home by using this funny little camera doohickey that recorded 360 degree video, audio, and also noted every keystroke on the computer as we took the test. That was a bit weird because you had to make sure there was no background noise, no papers in front of you, nothing on the walls around you, etc. And believe me, the company paid to watch these videos did their darn job. I found out the hard way because I cursed a few curse words during a particular exam and got an email two days later asking me to not use vulgar language as it could offend the people who review the video. LOL! As far as preceptors, we were expected to find our own so that we could get one close by in our own community (but we had to submit their credentials and have them approved by our instructors, of course); but if we had trouble finding one, then the instructors would contact past preceptors for us and line one up (you just might have to drive a little ways farther than desired if you went that route). Anyway, that is all just to give you a feel for how the program was set up.
Now, do I feel the program was rigorous and whatnot? Meh. Appropriately difficult, but no more so than my ADN and BSN programs were. It was much more time consuming and, therefore, more stressful, which would certainly add a degree of difficulty. Oh, and I worked full time as an ER RN during my NP school as well, so that didn't help the stress/time factor either.
I would have liked to have gone to a traditional school just for the experience, but at the time there weren't any options in my area, and I had no way to relocate at the time. I do believe there is something to be said for face-to-face education. Being in a classroom environment and being able to ask a question and immediately hear your classmates' and instructors' opinions is a much better experience overall for me. However, I do not think that missing out on that has impaired my learning in any way. It just made me have to be more self-motivated and aware.
Now, for one problem (of many) that even I have with online schools: They definitely assume that you have a lot of knowledge and experience under your belt prior to beginning NP courses (and they should), despite the fact that many do not require actual nursing experience for entry. I know this is a whole other argument, but still. The online school I went to expected you to be a solid RN with solid RN experience to build on. Without it, my program would be like learning to speak Spanish by starting off in Spanish II, completely skipping Intro to Spanish and at least half of Spanish I. Not impossible to succeed, but it certainly doesn't make it easy. At any rate, I believe if a program is going to assume a certain amount of prior knowledge, then they should vet potential student candidates with this in mind and actually require experience to get in. Other programs may be different, and start off assuming no prior RN experience, and they may begin to build a foundation from a different level. But again, they really should recruit/accept applicants based on what level of experience the program is geared towards, not just how many dollars they can make off of us. That is a severe disservice to the student because it is not allowing for an appropriate learning environment. But I digress.....
My husband went to a ($expensive$) well regarded brick and mortar NP school. He did that because, even though he had been an Occupational Therapist for 12 years and a paramedic for a couple years after that, he had only been an RN for barely 2 years before going back for his NP. And he knew that he would need the extra oomph that a brick and mortar school could provide. And he did great. But they really did challenge him and build a foundation from the bottom up, which is what he needed in order to "catch up" with the more experienced RNs in his class. Online schools don't really seem to offer this that I have seen yet, and that is a huge problem for those students with little or no experience. If we are to continue having those with little/no experience as an RN become NPs, then we really need programs that are designed to take this into account so that they aren't short-changed.
Anyway, another issue I see with online schools no matter if you have RN experience or not, is that you really need to be a self-motivator. There are a lot of opportunities to procrastinate and end up rushed so that whatever your assignment is, you end up not learning as much from it because you just slap it together. I know you can do this in regular schools as well, but there is something reminder-like about actually having to GO to class every so often that can prompt you to complete your projects in a more timely manner. Just my experience here, anyway.
So what is the perfect method of schooling? I believe it is very much based on the type of person the student is. If you have little experience, and you aren't a self-starter/motivator, then I think a traditional campus experience would be more beneficial. And when I say "self-starter/motivator," I do not mean "excited to learn." We are all excited to learn and become NPs, but you really need to self-evaluate and know what your learning pattern and habits are before making such a huge commitment. It's all about knowing what your needs/opportunities as a beginning provider are. Are you starting from scratch? Do you have experience, but it really isn't relatable to your chosen NP degree path (such as having practiced as a Peds RN but going into Adult Health)? Are you sure of your learning habits/needs? Etc etc etc..... Good luck to any and everyone. It's certainly been no Disneyland Fairytale being an NP, but it is what is, and I sure don't miss being a human fecal receptacle when I was working as an RN in the ER! LOL!
I do not think you can lump all online programs into the same category. We all know of the for profit models that herd students and push them through the programs with less than challenging content. However, many B&M schools offer an online option with the exact same content as the traditional students were given. The facts are that online learning is the future. It is more cost effective and benefits both the school and most learners. When I discovered the beauty of speeding up the online lecture of a lecturer who stammered and stuttered it gave me such utter joy and hope for the world.
I have done traditional ADN, a hybrid BSN, an online MSN and traditional MBA then a DNP that was online with trips to the campus. I had to study for each and every one of the degrees. I liked the online lecture as I can watch at 0200 pause it and heat up a pop tart and watch it all in the comfort of whatever the heck I want to wear.. B&M classes make my eyes bleed when some "special" student wants to ask dumb questions our overshare what he/she thinks. I have to listen to patients and other providers all day long and sometime less interaction is more. When I have a question or need help I can send and email, phone a friend or if all else fails - look it up.
I remember some of those nursing fluff classes in the BSN program like leadership, communities or nursing theories where we had 2-3 hours worth of lecture. Teachers reading powerpoint or telling us about their boring families. What I would have given back then to fast forward through all the random nonsense and just be left with the meat of the lecture (as is there is any meat to nursing theories).
As long as the program has a good reputation and provides qualifiers for entry and the nurse applies the principles in practice I do not see a huge difference in either delivery method.
Specializes in Hospital medicine; NP precepting; staff education.
If you want an anecdotal argument for the declination of nursing education, have a look at some of the different forums that have actual, certified nurse practitioners. Please, have a look at the spelling and grammar.
Please note, I'm not talking about those that are joking or having a good time. I am talking about the nurse practitioners that struggle with some of the basics of the English language.
I'm not saying we need to be posting in freaking APA format...but seriously....
But my APA prowess will cure you (M.A., July 22, 2017, personal conversation).
Nursing is already getting saturated and watered down as it is. Fast track programs etc. online programs just perpetuate this and is part of the problem. Since nursing leaders wont put there foot down, then I will start educating employers to not hire NPs with zero experience who get accelerated degrees online. I know many already know not to hire these people, but some other places are clueless.
The only exception to this is if you went to a reputable school and got your online degree like Vanderbilt or Columbia or something AND if you had strong BSN-RN background.
But hey, thats my opinion. I went the traditional more lengthy route that I think employers respect the most. I feel that if you want to be in a profession as prestigious as NP then do it the right way.
I've been following these types of threads on an off for a bit now and have found the different viewpoints interesting.
For me there was not really much choice as my employer will not hire online program prepared NP's and requires 2 years of RN experience minimum. I was fortunate to be accepted into a local program that meets their hiring requirements.
I knew that the online route was not for me though as I learn best through the lecture format. As mentioned by another, the interaction between class mates in a small cohort is invaluable and the clinical rabbit trails we take during lecture are quite informative. Free exchange of ideas from others with varied experiences can be difficult over the internet, especially when having honest debate and discussing clinical rationale.
I knew that the online route was not for me though as I learn best through the lecture format. As mentioned by another, the interaction between class mates in a small cohort is invaluable and the clinical rabbit trails we take during lecture are quite informative. Free exchange of ideas from others with varied experiences can be difficult over the internet, especially when having honest debate and discussing clinical rationale.
That makes sense. There are online programs that offer lectures and find your preceptors but you have to find them and be accepted to them like every other program.
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Soliloquy, MSN, APRN, NP
457 Posts
I'm in an online program for grad school and to be honest, I think it's more challenging (I'm learning far far more in a shorter space of time) than my undergrad BSN. We have the asynchronous material, but we also have class weekly with a professor who goes over the content we covered that week, which I love. I love going to class because it solidifies everything I read about, viewed powerpoints on, researched, for that week and helps tie it all in. It's the first semester and I feel like my mind has already been open to things I wasn't aware of. My experiences as a med-surg rn now makes more sense. They also find your clinical preceptors for you, etc so I do feel comfortable and confident that by the time I finish this program, I'll be ready.
Now, my issue with grad school is the same issue I've had with almost every nursing program. I understand the value of research and the desire to advance the nursing profession but sometimes I feel like it's a lot of filler courses. I also wish that we could have more clinicals. This program does offer quite a few clinicals hours but I think the time we spend "in the field" really does help to produce more confident Nurses/Nurse Practitioners who are familiar with their role. So the more time/hours, the better I think.