straight from the horse's mouth... adn vs bsn

llg, PhD, RN · Oct 27, 2011

Thank you for sharing that information. Some people still haven't gotten the message.

PMFB-RN, RN · Oct 27, 2011

I had a job interview for a CNA job at a local hospital yesterday. (That being said, please pray, send happy thoughts, cross your fingers or whatever for me lol) They asked that normal question "Where do you see yourself in 5 years" and I told them I want to be an RN. That lead to a discussion on ADN vs BSN. I was told to forget LPN and ADN unless I want to work in LTC. They told me they highly, highly recommend that I go straight for my BSN. They told me point blank that even if I work there as a CNA and get my ADN, they still will not promote me to a nurse's position. Granted, they are going for magnet status. All of the hospitals in my area (Kansas City) are either magnet or trying to be. So, if this is the case for your area too.... you might want to take note of this. I know this discussion has gone on forever, but I just felt it was worth repeating since this information came from 2 head nurses who have a large part in hiring nurses for this hospital.

*** Magnet has never required a hospital hire only BSNs. They may choose to only hire BSNs and they may be working to, or are Magnet but the two are not related, except that both indicate a certain mentality of administration.

If one if considering becoming an RN the starting with a BSN does make a lot of sense. However BSN only hiring is a luxury those hospitals may not be able to afford when the economy improves. Those of us in nursing for a long time have seen this before. Back in 1995 there was a BSN only hiring fad, but by 1997 it disappeared.

Magnet hospitals are acquiring a well deserved reputation as not being good work environments anyway.

EMT-newbie · Oct 28, 2011

Any take on how an ADN actively enrolled and working towards BSN is perceived in this environment?

PMFB-RN, RN · Oct 29, 2011

Any take on how an ADN actively enrolled and working towards BSN is perceived in this environment?

*** As an ADN. Worse if an ADN does RN to BSN immediatly after nursing school, those programs require an RN lisense. So when the RN finishes after one or two years they have a BSN but are no longer new grads and not qualifed for new grad residency programs.

EMT-newbie · Oct 29, 2011

*** As an ADN. Worse if an ADN does RN to BSN immediatly after nursing school, those programs require an RN lisense. So when the RN finishes after one or two years they have a BSN but are no longer new grads and not qualifed for new grad residency programs.

With that kind of Catch-22 it seems like getting certs like ACLS after an ADN makes more sense than advancing academically, then continuing on with the BSN after a job is found :jester:

Oh my, that's sneaky. And counter intuitive. More research is called for while I get prerequisites common to either ADN or BSN out of the way, I'm thinking. I'm going to read back a few pages and poll my local contacts, thanks for the input!

MrChicagoRN, RN · Oct 29, 2011

Any take on how an ADN actively enrolled and working towards BSN is perceived in this environment?

I know of at least one major Chicago area hospital that will hire ADN but they need to complete a BSN within a certain period.

I would think that the ADN actively working for their BSN would have the edge over the ADN that isn't doing so

ParkerBC,MSN,RN, PhD, RN · Oct 30, 2011

It is to my understanding that a certain percentage of Registered Nurses need to be BSN nurses for magnet status. I am not sure what that percentage is and I have been unable to find it. Anyone who helped a facility with magnet status…please chime in.

kenyacka · Oct 30, 2011

*** Magnet has never required a hospital hire only BSNs. They may choose to only hire BSNs and they may be working to, or are Magnet but the two are not related, except that both indicate a certain mentality of administration.
This actually is not true. Magnet doesn't require only BSNs, however it does require that a percentage of all nurses must have their BSN.
I took my BLS course today and one guy in my class has been an ICU nurse for 15 years in Kansas. He just moved to Missouri in the Kansas City area and can't find a job. He was told by 3 different hospitals (he called the ADON and DON hoping for a foot in the door) that without a BSN, they wouldn't even see him for an interview. Call it what you want... in my area, if you want a job, you'd better get your BSN. Is it right? Is it fair? Maybe not, but you can't change the system.

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Oct 30, 2011

I don't know about anyone else---and to be honest, my experience with so-called Magnet hospitals is very limited---but I think the designation is merely window-dressing, a hey-ain't-we-done-good feather in the cap of administration and a money-maker for the facility. There is one Magnet hospital in my area that I literally wouldn't send my DOG to, and yet I have to entrust this place with the lives and well-being of my residents when they have to go there.

I've sent people there with CHF exacerbations and unstable VS, only to have them boomerang back mere hours later with instructions to increase their Lasix in the morning and follow up with their PCP. I've sent a resident in full-blown psychosis who was hallucinating and threatening to kill everyone he saw; he was back before dinner with NO new orders. They don't even have the courtesy to call us with report to let us know they're sending people back; residents just show up at the front door and sometimes don't even have any papers that show what they were diagnosed with, let alone instructions for what to do with them when they come back with a cast or a PICC line!

With post-ops and those we send out for day surgeries, it's even worse. Like as not, this hospital will send them home hours or days before they are actually stable enough for discharge to a non-skilled setting, with pain or confusion that's still out of control, and sometimes they don't even prescribe pain medications......like a man who's just had his gallbladder out is going to be fine with plain Tylenol. :madface:

It doesn't seem to make much of a difference in the lives of nurses, either. I have a couple of friends working at this "Magnet" hospital, who tell me privately that even with BSN's, they are treated like schoolchildren and have very little say in how their floors are run......or their workloads distributed. They are paid well, but like my one friend says, the money doesn't make you feel any better when TPTB decide they want to mess with your head and screw around with your schedule. She went from working three 12-hour shifts per week, which was her preference, to eight-hour shifts on a four-on, two-off rotation that's different every week and leaves her with only one full weekend off in any given six-week period. She did not ask for this, nor did the hospital ask her for her input or even if she was able to work the new schedule---her manager said, in essence: "There's the door. You can leave the same way you came in."

Nope, not terribly impressed with the Magnet designation. I think it's a whole lot of ado about nothing, and it gives hospitals yet another excuse to engage in degree snobbery and discriminate against excellent nurses who can't or won't go for the BSN, and who won't put up with the hospital's BS. :down:

PMFB-RN, RN · Oct 30, 2011

It is to my understanding that a certain percentage of Registered Nurses need to be BSN nurses for magnet status. I am not sure what that percentage is and I have been unable to find it. Anyone who helped a facility with magnet status...please chime in.

*** That is not the case for staff nurses. As of this year 75% of nurse leaders (nurse manager and up) must have a bachelors or higher degree in nursing. As of 2013 100% of nurse leaders must have a bachelors or higher in nursing. In addition the CNO must have a master or higher in nursing. The ANCC makes no mention of degree requirments for staff RNs at all.

I have sat on two hospital's Magnet committees during their "Journey to Magnet" and through one re-certification. I currently am a member of my hospital's Magnet committee.

ParkerBC,MSN,RN, PhD, RN · Oct 30, 2011

*** That is not the case for staff nurses. As of this year 75% of nurse leaders (nurse manager and up) must have a bachelors or higher degree in nursing. As of 2013 100% of nurse leaders must have a bachelors or higher in nursing. In addition the CNO must have a master or higher in nursing. The ANCC makes no mention of degree requirments for staff RNs at all.
I have sat on two hospital's Magnet committees during their "Journey to Magnet" and through one re-certification. I currently am a member of my hospital's Magnet committee.

Thank-you so much for clarifying