12-Step Coercion

Nurses General Nursing

Published

the following presentation was given at the may 21, 2004 open forum of the north carolina board of nursing meeting:

http://www.angelfire.com/journal/forcedaa/ncbon.html

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
Everything is revolved around something, call it God, Alah, Budha, eagles, wolves, the sun, the earth, whatever! That doesn't mean any of it is religioin.

But to some of us it's "religious", not religion. But you're right it's semantics. Some see religion, other's don't. :)

But to some of us it's "religious", not religion. But you're right it's semantics. Some see religion, other's don't. :)

Yes, anyone who denies that prayer is religious is definitely playing a game of semantics.

"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."George Orwell

But to some of us it's "religious", not religion. But you're right it's semantics. Some see religion, other's don't. :)

Amen! Oh no, that's religious, or maybe not...maybe it just means we agree and that's the end of that!

I'll Amen, but thats not even close "...to the end of that!" :coollook:

Please define "religious" using the New Oxford English Dictionary.

Do the same for the word "prayer".

Go read page 85 of the AA Big Book or read the 3rd step prayer.

Then come back here and try to play with words again and TRY to make AA look non-religious.

Oh...btw 2 Appeals Courts already overuled you.

No amount of semantics will win this one for ya. Logic and reason win.

Love and Peace,

loerith

I'll Amen, but thats not even close "...to the end of that!" :coollook:

Please define "religious" using the New Oxford English Dictionary.

Do the same for the word "prayer".

Go read page 85 of the AA Big Book or read the 3rd step prayer.

Then come back here and try to play with words again and TRY to make AA look non-religious.

Oh...btw 2 Appeals Courts already overuled you.

No amount of semantics will win this one for ya. Logic and reason win.

Love and Peace,

loerith

We are all painfully aware of how every mention of the God that this country was built on is being shoved under the carpet by a few godless individuals. As usual, he who speaks loudest or heard the most often becomes "right" in the minds of those too small minded to think for themselves. The masses follow along like sheep behind those with the biggest mouths. It begins when they are in preschool and continues throughout their lives. I really feel sorry for them.

OK sometimes we have to do things we don't like to get from point a to point b basicly maybe if you want your nursing lisence back devise a plan and present it to bon or request a rehab other than aa....if you do not have a plan or if you do no want or can't afford there has to be other alternatives. i have never been to an aa meeting , not even sure what the 12 steps are but if you attend a buffet you pick and chose what you want you don't have to eat the whole thing...when you get your license back remember what you have been through this time around....i hope that you are relicensed and that you get back to work where you will be helpful to fellow man good luck

I just missed it. Prayer, as is commonly defined is a religious thing but with an open mind one can see that it can be no more than an individual or group asking for the inner strength to get through the day. Again, not especially religious.

Too many anti-religion people are so stuck on semantics that they fail to see more than one definition in anything. Everything is revolved around something, call it God, Alah, Budha, eagles, wolves, the sun, the earth, whatever! That doesn't mean any of it is religioin.

The point that we keep trying to make here and that you are missing is that the 12 steps ARE RELIGIOUS in nature, this IS NOT an opinion, its legal!!...The courts have already ruled on this, and with that said IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO MANDATE PEOPLE TO THESE MEETINGS!...It is ilegal to mandate people to religion!

OK sometimes we have to do things we don't like to get from point a to point b basicly maybe if you want your nursing lisence back devise a plan and present it to bon or request a rehab other than aa....if you do not have a plan or if you do no want or can't afford there has to be other alternatives. i have never been to an aa meeting , not even sure what the 12 steps are but if you attend a buffet you pick and chose what you want you don't have to eat the whole thing...when you get your license back remember what you have been through this time around....i hope that you are relicensed and that you get back to work where you will be helpful to fellow man good luck

The difference here is that at the buffet you have the right and are allowed to pick only what you want, at a 12 step meeting its all or nothing, especially when involved in an alternative program....we are required to PROVE that we "eating to ENTIRE buffet" on a monthly basis....it sucks.

We are all painfully aware of how every mention of the God that this country was built on is being shoved under the carpet by a few godless individuals. As usual, he who speaks loudest or heard the most often becomes "right" in the minds of those too small minded to think for themselves. The masses follow along like sheep behind those with the biggest mouths. It begins when they are in preschool and continues throughout their lives. I really feel sorry for them.
There are all kinds of 12 Step Meetings now, which is a good thing, in my opinion. The problem is that we are living in a post-Christian culture which no longer values Judeo-Christian moral principles. Without these, the 12 Steps loose their moral force and a person's recovery is meager while the person remains vulnerable to the assaults of evil. Many are giving themselves over to New Age thinking and returning to superstitious behavior. Otherwise intelligent people resorting to Tarot Cards or Palm Readers during 12 step meetings. Such superstitious behavior only feeds human brokenness. Regrettably, the moral imperatives of Christian living are not acceptable in today's permissive culture.
The point that we keep trying to make here and that you are missing is that the 12 steps ARE RELIGIOUS in nature this IS NOT an opinion, its legal!!...The courts have already ruled on this, and with that said IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO MANDATE PEOPLE TO THESE MEETINGS!...It is ilegal to mandate people to religion![/quote']

Everything is religious in nature. That's the point I am trying to make, not very well I agree. No matter what it is or what you call it everything revolves around some kind of power we can not feel, see or touch. Many use religion to give some definition to it, others simply call it nature. Regardless, it IS.

So, apparently the 12 steps refer to God? I can't say that I know, I also can not attest to the success vs fail rate of AA or any other rehab. What I do know is that something must be available for those who are too week to stay away from the bottle/pill/syringe. If you want to stay sober, you can go to these meetings and allow the comraderie (sure I spelled that one wrong) to help you and not the religion. Or, you can take it to court and claim they are trying to force religion on you. Take your choice.

Would it actually hurt any atheist to say God? Would it hurt any athiest to pray to God. NO. It's just an excuse to stay drunk or hopped up on drugs.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
Would it actually hurt any atheist to say God? Would it hurt any athiest to pray to God. NO. It's just an excuse to stay drunk or hopped up on drugs.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Um.....the point they are trying to make it that's it's illegal. Forcing an athesist to pray to God may not hurt the person, but it's illegal. In this country "the time" must be constitutional.

Um.....the point they are trying to make it that's it's illegal. Forcing an athesist to pray to God may not hurt the person, but it's illegal. In this country "the time" must be constitutional.

And my point is that even though a few big mouthed folk who are too sorry to do that time found a way out of it! Fact is, even an athiest believes in something to explain the nature of this earth. Call it whatever they want, call it nature, God, Jahova, Buddah, eagles, wolves, whatever... they believe in something. Therefore they can do the time understanding that one man says God while another says wolf or that thing we can not define that allows this earth to exist where there was nothing.

Being hung up on semantics and taking the word God out of everything leaves some people with absolutely no spiritual leadership and that is something every human needs; even those who aren't sure what it is but they are sure it's not God.

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