Staffers arrested

allnurses Guide · Dec 28, 2024

I'm not sure what your comment means. The artical clearly states there was a pattern of abuse/neglect by "Staff" it doesn't say if it was nurses or ancillary staff.

Hppy

delrionurse · Dec 28, 2024

hppygr8ful said:

I'm not sure what your comment means. The artical clearly states there was a pattern of abuse/neglect by "Staff" it doesn't say if it was nurses or ancillary staff.

Hppy

No, the article states that the director of nursing, who is an RN, and the administrator were arrested. Point is, even if they didn't participate in abuse, they are being arrested.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Jan 6

NEGLECT of an adult/ dependent person post report to Protective Services is what lead to management staff being arrested --totally appropriate per my time as an Ombudsman in SNF/LTC facilities.

allnurses Guide · Jan 6

delrionurse said:

No, the article states that the director of nursing, who is an RN, and the administrator were arrested. Point is, even if they didn't participate in abuse, they are being arrested.

I understand this. I just don't get your original comment. " There's going to be fewer and fewer nurses willing to put up this."

heron, ASN, RN · Jan 6

I'm reminded of a recent thread in which nurses waxed quite eloquent in their contempt for a CNA who pushed back on being given direction. The discussion centered heavily on the "right" of nurses to direct the work of "subordinate" staff.

You can't have it both ways. Supervision of care is an integral part of the practice of professional nursing. The DON in question failed to supervise the care being delivered in her building and that failure led to the death of a resident. I believe there was also an issue of falsification of records, resulting in the arrest of the nurse educator as well.

I'm sure that severe understaffing and chronic supply shortages played a significant part in the death of this resident. I makes me wonder why the owners of the facility weren't also charged. After all, corporations are legal "persons" these days.

toomuchbaloney · Jan 6

delrionurse said:

No, the article states that the director of nursing, who is an RN, and the administrator were arrested. Point is, even if they didn't participate in abuse, they are being arrested.

They are responsible for the care provided by the unlicensed staff.

JKL33 · Jan 7

heron said:

I'm reminded of a recent thread in which nurses waxed quite eloquent in their contempt for a CNA who pushed back on being given direction. The discussion centered heavily on the "right" of nurses to direct the work of "subordinate" staff.

Edit:

I have spent the better part of the afternoon, unfortunately, writing various replies to this that I have deleted. I regret that wasted time but I was/am just incredulous that you would mischaracterize that discussion in this way. I can take a lot and I can walk away from a lot of things, but I am offended that you would do this.

I think it best to just register that I feel this is a gross mischaracterization of that discussion. Others can judge for themselves if they wish.

https://allnurses.com/how-I-handle-CNA-t761970/

JKL33 · Jan 7

deleted.

heron, ASN, RN · Jan 7

JKL33 said:

Edit:

I have spent the better part of the afternoon, unfortunately, writing various replies to this that I have deleted. I regret that wasted time but I was/am just incredulous that you would mischaracterize that discussion in this way. I can take a lot and I can walk away from a lot of things, but I am offended that you would do this.

I think it best to just register that I feel this is a gross mischaracterization of that discussion. Others can judge for themselves if they wish.

https://allnurses.com/how-I-handle-CNA-t761970/

Let us agree to disagree. Honest minds disagree on the Bible and the Constitution. Why would AN be any different? Do you have any thoughts to offer on the subject of this thread?

JKL33 · Jan 7

heron said:

Let us agree to disagree. Honest minds disagree on the Bible and the Constitution. Why would AN be any different? Do you have any thoughts to offer on the subject of this thread?

I understand that now that I've seen your comment here you'd prefer to focus on "this thread," but you need to make this right. You are mischaracterizing that discussion; the words of others. I am sorry to keep this going but that is an offense far worse than any mere disagreement. You can disagree with me as vehemently as you wish but what you cannot do is misrepresent what I said. On the original thread there was not contempt (hatred) for a person, nor was the objection based on the idea of one's "rights" against those of "subordinates." There was decisive commentary against the actions of the aide in that scenario and I made additional commentary concerning my beliefs about motivations for that type of behavior, which were also not coming from a place of position-based contempt for a person or contempt for a person at all. I basically said that there are few, if any, good reasons to [ask a nurse if their legs are broken] and that the particular way it was done is usually an attempt to intimidate the nurse and I do not accept that. That's it in a nutshell.

I read this current thread shortly after it was posted. And I did not come flying in here to incredulously ask how dare these people be arrested when they didn't abuse anyone. I know why. Because they are the ones that are deemed appropriate to shoulder the accountability for this, as they are in charge.

***

Now, what I think is a far more interesting related discussion is in regard to the actual positions in which RNs usually find themselves:

RN will be held responsible for the actions (or lack of actions) of others whom they supervise, without any effectual power/authority to ensure the things for which they are responsible.

Let me be VERY CLEAR I am not talking about "power over nursing assistants" but more about things like the fact that we don't usually control budgets and often have ethical interests that conflict with the motivations of those above us and have no effectual power to say that we are going to operate base on our ethical principles, not your business interests. There are a number of roles in our society that are like this.

One could make the argument that it is wrong to allow power/authority without accountability and that it is wrong to place accountability without authority.

I find it very problematic but don't have any realistic solutions.

delrionurse · Jan 7

hppygr8ful said:

I understand this. I just don't get your original comment. " There's going to be fewer and fewer nurses willing to put up this."

What I mean by this is if a nurse did participate in their care, and they did the right thing, notify physician, turn resident, did wound care (but one nurse on one shift is not enough), their name can still be included in the wrongdoing and will so have to PROVE they did their care for the resident in question.