Spin off: how do you deal with DNP haters.

[linearthinker, DNP, RN]

I didn't want to derail PurpleScrub's thread, but I am in a similar position. Please let's not debate this. I am speaking to other DNP students in particular. I have recently been very disappointed by highly negative remarks about DNP I hear from nurse colleagues. I understand that some are not interested in pursuing it, and I think that is fine. I understand that many of those people are not happy with the nursing leaders that are advocating it, and I think that is appropriate too. I think they deserve to be heard and should be publishing their reasoned arguments and talking with their representatives at the BON, etc. What I don't understand is why these people feel the need to insult me, my goals and denigrate my chosen path? I went to an International nursing conference recently and many MSN and PhD prepared nurses there were downright insulting about my degree plans. Why can't we all just support one another?

I want to do the additional clinical and didactic work because it interests me. I am thinking of making my capstone project something to do with diet/exercise interventions with regard to diabetes and cardiac disease. I lost almost 100 pounds w/o surgery or drugs (weight watchers), and normalized my blood sugars, blood pressures, cholesterol, etc. After struggling w/ obesity for 25 years, I finally did it. I envision formulating an intervention aimed at helping the people like me. I can tell you that achieving a normal weight has literally changed my life, my whole perspective. I want to offer that to other people in some kind of group out patient setting. I have a wealthy benefactor willing to put up some money to subsidize YMCA memberships as part of my intervention. I think that is worth something. I strongly believe that my DNP classes and project will make me better at the kind of AP nursing I want to do. Why p!ss on it/me? It is so disheartening.

I don't want to make 100K, treat inpatients (puh-lease, I've had more than enough of that ) trick people into thinking I'm a medical doctor or operate independently of one. I think I probably could, given the scope I have in mind because I don't want to treat acute patients. I have seen more than enough DKA and I'm tired of treating it (as a nurse), I want to help try to prevent it. I picture it run a lot like a coumadin clinic. Managing diabetes meds would certainly be part of it, but I don't want it to be the main focus. My state requires physician collaboration, and I don't mind a MD reading over my charts; if they want to be more integrally involved, I welcome their input and expertise. How the he!! to get reimbursement for any of this is another question, but I'll figure out something, I hope. I just wish my nurse friends and colleagues didn't feel the need to tell me I'll have a 2nd rate degree, that my degree and aspirations are/will be a "joke."

How do other DNP students deal with negative remarks?

Please, I'm looking for dialog and/or support, not debate. If you cannot offer either, I respectfully request you direct your remarks to a forum more suited to your purpose. Thanks in advance. :)

[Dr.Naija_Glam]

I will be starting a DNP program in August and have not dealt with much negativity about the degree that I have chosen. Mostly I am critized over the patient population I have chosen to commit myself to, which is pediatrics. However, the complaints that I have heard about the DNP is the additional time one must spend in school and the "what if the DNP suggestion doesn't come to be" scenero that have been brought up from time to time. I did a lot of research before applying to DNP programs and have seen that many nursing schools are offering the degree. I have have also noticed the accreditation process being done by the CCNE. This gives me the impression that the DNP will come to be. Only time will tell if this is so.

To those who bring up these issues I simply say that this is the career path that I have chosen for myself. Noone has to agree with this because it will be me doing all the studying and completing the clinical hours. If anyone had the audacity to insult me about my degree choice I would tell them the truth......that it doesn't matter what they thought about it because I will be completing it no matter what and end the conversation. This may seem blunt but what else can you do to someone who is insulting you? Are you going to get into a respectful debate about the positives and negatives of the DNP? Probably not.

Your nurse friends and colleagues are entitled to their opinions. I have no idea why one professional would insult another's educational plans. Perhaps, some are afraid that their degree will not mean as much (which is not true). Maybe they do not like change. You will only find out their reasons by asking them directly. I suggest you focus on your plan of study and think about how wonderful it will be when you are done and practicing in your area of choice. It excites me to think about my plans once I am done with school. Good luck to you!

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

Just like the APN versus MD versus med student debate: its all in the eyes of the beholder. Don't sweat it. If the DNP is what you want for your practice, go for it.

I admire nurses that want to pursue a doctorate be it a DNP, DNSc, PhD, EdD.

Its a personal choice and one which you should be happy with - doesn't matter what others think.

[Corey Narry, MSN, RN, NP]

Because the degree is relatively new, you'll likely come across a lot of people within the nursing profession who express strong feelings of skepticism about the value of the DNP. That's just the way humans react to a new concept. Not everyone agrees with any new change in any field of study. It sounds like the DNP would lead you to a path as a nurse practitioner in the future. When you're done, you will work alongside colleagues who will have a Master's degree and are doing the same kind of work and possibly earning the same salary range as you despite your more extensive preparation leading to your academic degree. It sounds like that doesn't bother you so there's really no reason to be offended by the negative comments you were hearing from others. And it really shouldn't because the nursing profession is full of various academic degress from LPN to PhD, nobody really bothers to find out what degrees we have during our day-to-day activities in the clinical setting. We are more known by our roles - Bedside Nurse, Nurse Manager, Nurse Practitioner, Clinical Nurse Specialist, Professor, etc. In the end, we make decisions based on what would make us happy in our careers. As long as you have given careful thought regarding the path you took by weighing the pros and cons as it applies to your situation, you should be secure enough to not to be severely affected by the negative comments directed at your decision to pursue a DNP.

[Sugah Britches]

I agree with traumaRUs...

In a recent discussion about entering the DNP program, I was bombarded with "why would you want to do that"..

My reply... Because I CAN!

[sandnnw, BSN, MSN, EMT-B, APRN]

Yeah sug...and if you can get someone else to pay for it, why not??? Go for it!

[Alisabeth, BSN, MSN, DNP]

I am in my last semester of the DNP. I have been suprised the negativity in regards to the DNP comes from fellow nurses, NP, and CRNA's. The physicians I come in contact with and work with are very supportive and think the DNP is great! It's really no different than when the pharmacy and physical therapy went from a master's to a doctorate program.

[BS, NP]

I am in the process of deciding where to apply....(have been an NP for about 7 years)....one thing I don't get as far as criticism goes...is the accusation that we want to be doctors (physicians)....can people just understand that a doctorate is an EDUCATIONAL title...not profession specific....while I understand it's a euphemysm for physicians.....psychologists, podiatrists, optometrists, pharmacists, educators, researchers....the list goes on.....to me, a doctorate is a terminal educational endpoint to a body of knowledge/or profession..........

[tracelane, DNP, NP]

I am in a DNP program and will finish (I Hope!) May 2011. I have had the same issues. At first I didn't realize when nurses asked, why are you doing that? , that they were being negative. I tried to explain that I wanted to learn more, etc. Now I just say Why not? That stops them.

It seems to be a variation of the nurses eat their young sort of thing. Instead of being supportive, like crabs, some people try to drag you back down into the bucket.

T

[linearthinker, DNP, RN]

Thanks for the replies. Soul searching and prayerful thought has made me realize I am in the wrong school, and most of my hesitancy about DNP comes from that, not from naysayers. I love my MSN program, but I think I need to branch out and finish the DNP somewhere else. I don't have a faculty mentor here and no one is really researching my area of interest. In addition, I think for the DNP I really want to be on campus. I just feel like I need that more intimate connection. There is someone at Case Western doing something similar, and it is close enough to drive to weekly, if not quite daily. I can apply for graduation in August and take some time off to test, rest, etc. I feel the Lord is really leading me to spend some time with my family too. Thanks for the supportive words!

[PICUPNP]

I am in the process of deciding where to apply....(have been an NP for about 7 years)....one thing I don't get as far as criticism goes...is the accusation that we want to be doctors (physicians)....can people just understand that a doctorate is an EDUCATIONAL title...not profession specific....while I understand it's a euphemysm for physicians.....psychologists, podiatrists, optometrists, pharmacists, educators, researchers....the list goes on.....to me, a doctorate is a terminal educational endpoint to a body of knowledge/or profession..........

The "I want to be called dr" comes from a very few individual NPs who have advocated for just that....remember , very few NPs said this but the medical community at large responded in a very big way. I think the other part of people not supporting the dnpas a degree stems from Mundinger herself who equated her newly minted dnps as equal to physicians..not a smart thing to do either. Also, the majority of NPs out there see it as not being what its touted to be..terminal degree for nps. It needs, again, hard science and patient management components. Most nps don't see the purpose in going back for the dnp as it adds almost nothing to a np's practice. BUT, this doesn't give people the right to denigrate you for your choices. I don't support the dnp in its current form but a persons choice of education is theirs and no one elses.

[sandnnw, BSN, MSN, EMT-B, APRN]

folks, we have seen this before and before (think BSN, MSN). Whilst other members of our allied health team (most of which are heavily aligned with the AMA) are now STANDARDIZED with a terminal doctorate, it is confounding that many of our own nursing family chastise our brethren for returning to improve, not only themselves, but the profession as a whole.

WHY tell me? Why, when I chose to go for a BSN did I hear..."why did you waste those TWO years? Your not going to get anymore money!" Uh...Army requirement? Self satisfaction? Parental pride? Desire of my employer? Oh and don't forget, so I could sit around and become a nurse manager quicker! (no thanks) and then,

WHY? When I chose to go back again and work toward my MSN did I hear over..."why are you putting yourself thru that torture? You won't make anymore money, you've already been a nurse 20 years, you may have to take a pay cut! Oh, tired of getting orders off the printer, gonna write them now, huh!" Very catty, immature, jealous, negative, non-supportive from a *few*. Why? They have the very SAME opportunity...

Now, I'm contemplating the pros/cons of going back for the "D" and grabbing an ACNP along with it. I'm wondering when someone finds out about it...will the comments be the same as above and include, "you just want us to call you DOCTOR! Well you can just forget that one Mr."

No, I just want to be called, period.