Speaking native languages at work...

[NMAguiar]

A Sacramento hospital this week passed around a questionare to its nurses. Here is the question...

Diversity Council Needs You!

To give us input on the question of staff members using their native language(s) at work. We value your opinion. This survey will remain anomymous. Please respond and explain in full if possible.

...following was several blank lines to explain, essay type, how you felt about the issue.

In case you're wondering, here is my response:

________________

I was always taught that whispering in public was rude. It makes others around uncomfortable as to what is being discussed and is exclusive-not inclusive-- to others.

Speaking in a foreign language within earshot of patients, guests or co-workers who don't understand the dialect is the same as whispering. It alienates others and by its nature says "I'm speaking about something I don't want to share with you."

In our hospital's very diverse environment, we all need to be especially sensitive to the cultures and backgrounds of others. No matter which of the dozens of languages spoken at (our hospital) we may understand, professionalism requires we adhere to the language we all speak fluently-- the one we used during our license exams and that all hospital

documents are written in.

Thank-you for asking!

_________________

Should be good fodder for discussion here.

:roll

[SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN]

originally posted by jnette

just a little bit of different perspective here... want to play devil's advocate for a minute...(although i agree with most of what has been said, especially around the patients and when discussing nursing assigments, etc.)

but... imagine yourselves working in france, germany..wherever, for whatever reason.

you also happen to have several other nurses there from america. would it not be the most natural thing in the world for you to "automatically" speak your native tongue with your fellow us nurses? and on breaks? would you really speak german or french with your us buddies? must we always assume someone is talking about us when speaking another language? why are we so paranoid?

in europe it is so common to hear other languages spoken at all times in the working environment and no one takes offense...

they would never attempt to control your choice of conversational language in germany if you happened to be from france, the us or wherever. when dicussing patient issues in the presence of a patient, yes.. otherwise no. can't help but think it's rude and arrogant of us to expect others to always speak our language at all times ! we have no right controlling anyone's choice of speaking their native tongue.. i feel it's wrong to do so. (again, i'm referring to personal conversations... which do happen and should be allowed to happen even at work).

put the shoe on the other foot and just try to imagine yourself in a foreign country surrounded by a foreign language you had learned just to work there. then finding yourself amongst "buddies" from the good ol' us ! i can't believe you'd never be speaking english with them at work...it would be the natural thing to do. sure.. be concientious when discussing nursing issues with coworkers and make an effort to not appear to be alienating or "rude"... but don't tell me what language i'm allowed to speak or when... hey.. this is america and part of its greatness is freedom of choice and freedom of speech.. in whatever language!

just food for thought...i'm ready for the darts...

:chuckle

i too whole heartily agree !!! i've been saying that for ages now on similar threads in the not too distant past.

we americans are arrogant when it come to how we perceive or think "other people" or "foreigners" should behave, speak, or think. it's funny how this land is for the democratic & free...the forefathers didn't like being mistreated...you know...taxation without representation. every 4th of july we all fill with pride being able to, you know, have free speech & the whole nine yards. now we have foreign nurses working here (which by the way, helps us out tremendously i might add) & all we can say in appreciation is..."if they're going to live/work here, then they should....". now that's not very american of us now is it...it's rather hypocritical.

none of us would like that kind of treatment if we decide to go elsewhere to live/work, for whatever the reason maybe. yes, during official working hours & while on the duty floor, english should be used to converse about the patients & their care because it's the official language here at this point in time...but that...ladies & gents may change in the not too near future...like it or not. why is it such a crime if this country has to take-up a second language (any language - you take a pick). life is about change isn't it...we're born, we grow-up & reproduce, we grow old, then die...well all i've got to say is that i welcome some diversity & change with open arms.

first of all, you (not directed at any one person :chair: ) have to be sure that the social conversations are just that, social. then simply ask whom ever is talking in a foreign language to just translate what is being said & tell them that you're feeling a bit left-out. honestly, i think people don't speak in their native tongue just to set-out to talk about their co-workers (unless you've given them reasons to talk about, then that's another issue...isn't it)...they more than likely do it because it's easy & comfortable. it's like having a piece of home away from home there with you. i think if the matter was brought-up in a civilized manner, your foreign co-workers would definitely understand. mario's right when he speak about us not using proper grammar at work. english is one of the most difficult languages to learn...heck, it's hard enough as a first language, let alone a second language; especially when it comes to the slang that many of us use on a daily basis...at work or otherwise. american slang is everywhere, on television, in the movies, on the radio, our kids are always coming up with new stuff all the time. it's hard for me to keep up...well i guess that's because i'm over 30 & past it...at least according to my daughter... :rotfl: lol. so why don't we just give our fellow co-workers a bit of a break...& just let them know that you're feeling a little left-out.

mario luv - i also totally agree with you too - babe :kiss . hey did you like my venacular ...heeheehee .

[CaliNurse]

I think we have all summed it up real simple - NATIVE LANGUAGE.

What is the native language of the area you are living in?

Could you imagine if you were in Norway and everyone spoke Norwegean (sp?) around you? You would feel like you were in a strange place. Depending on why you are in the hospital it may make you feel insecure, disoriented, disrespected, inable to communicate your basic needs, etc.

Now lets say you are right here in the good old USA and everyone is still speaking norwegean. How you would feel? If you had any concerns about the facility or the care providers you would really feel like you don't know what they are up to.

THIS IS BASICALLY DISRESPECTFUL and in my facility it is considered Verbal Abuse!

It still happens. We try to remind each other.

This practice makes us look unprofessional.

This has been one of my pet peeves since I entered this field. We need more sensativity training. What would it feel like if we were that patient? You get a basic sense of trust, and you formulate your opinions of people by factoring in how someone responds to you verbally when it is in a language that you understand. Imagine how it would feel if you could not do that because the nurse or caregiver didn't value your dignity as a patient enough to speak the native language for the part of the world you are in?

Foriegn languages should only be used when you are on a break room and out of the public area of the hospital or when you are translatting.

I am sure we will see this topic again this year. Its a cycle.

Cali

[mario_ragucci]

originally posted by skm-nursiepooh

mario luv - i also totally agree with you too - babe :kiss . hey did you like my venacular ...heeheehee .

thank you nursiepooh (blush and grin) but the world must remember that usa is a unique cultural force that is more than veterans and time. we are a huge country, with boo-coo bounaries and we are coming off of a high horse because of our rich natural resources. being american, and america means being proud to be where were from, and our thing is we speak our own way, and thats all the culture we have thats honest and easy to share. ohter countries may not think its a big deal, but to americans, in the usa, it is not liked, and i understand why.

me - i wouldn't burn all over any esl co-worker by talking out of their vocabulary with my 70's and 80's nyc mouth, but i hear other walk all over esl and have no idea they are not being fair/respectful of esl people. :kiss

[semstr]

Well here a reaction from someone, who lived through all this herself!

As you all know, I was born and raised in the Netherlands, where I went to school and had to (mind you HAD to) learn 3 languages: (Dutch doesn't count here, it is my mothertongue, but we had that too of course), English, French and German.

For those going to Gymnasia (like I did) Latin and Greek too.

So even though I learned these languages for 8 years, I didn't understand a word of Austrian-German as I arrived in Vienna. Not one word!! This is Austrian-German and this dialect is terrible hard to understand and to learn. People from Germany hardly understand us.

Second example, my English is pretty good I think, but first time I had to go to an official dinner with my husband, there were quite a few US-citizens from the south at our table..................... the evening was a disaster for me! I didn't understand them! Husband had to translate for me, till one of the guests asked him, why I (you know over my head) couldn't speak English? My husband answered that I could, but I never met people from Louisana before and I just didn't understand them.

They were shocked! Really shocked! Then I tried to explain it to them myself and they were even more shocked. They never heared that before! They really tried afterwards to talk "written-English" but they had a hard time.

So, all I wanted to say here, even when you learned a language at school, and had good marks, in real life it can be so different.

And yes, every time I saw one of my Dutch collegues we talked Dutch. Mind you, nursing-manager didn't put us five on the same ward.

Sorry, long story, take care, Renee

[caroladybelle, BSN, RN]

Like I said earlier - it is debatable who even speaks "pure" English - Don Murray, Florry, me with my Southern English, Mario with his New Yorkese, etc. - who are we to complain when one has a social conversation in the language that they are most comfortable with another that speaks it.

[RNinICU]

I think maybe we need to make a distinction here between professional and personal communication. Patients should always be adressed in a language they understand, either directly or through an interpreter. I agree that patients are frightened as is, and hearing those around them carry on a conversation they don't understand can add to their anxiety. Other professional communication between staff, such as assignments should also be carried out in English. But when two people are having a personal conversation, I don't care what language they speak. To say that one feels left out of a conversation when they don't understand the language is not a valid argument. I have been left out of plenty of English conversations at work. If two people are involved in a conversation, I don't feel I have to be included just because I am in the same room. And I certianly don't need to know what they are saying, unless they want me too. There are some conversations I don't want to be a part of. And I don't necessarily include everyone in the room in my conversations either. Personal communication is just that- personal. It is none of my business what people are talking about when they are having a personal conversation.

[rebelwaclause, ASN, RN]

^5 RNinICU

[OBNURSEHEATHER]

Just wanted to relay an experience I had a few weeks ago.

I was taking a patient downstairs to be discharged via wheelchair, baby in arms. Dad had run some bags to the car and was going to pull up in the front of the hospital.

As we get on the elevator, 2 ladies from environmental services were on there. They chit-chatted the mom for a minute, "oh what a pretty baby," and such. Then they began speaking to each other in Spanish. Now, I wouldn't consider myself a Spanish expert, but I know enough, especially the main phrases and words that pertain to maternal/child nursing.

The women on the elevator were speaking about the woman, and wondering where the father of the baby was.

I simply looked at them and said "me hablo espanol." And they quickly shut the h*ll up, after giving me a dirty look.

Heather

[donmurray]

I would never claim to speak "good" english, especially since the fashion now is to move away from the standard formal english as spoken very fast by actors in old black-and-white movies! Given the small size of the UK there are huge regional variations in accents and dialects, and even the natives can have difficulty understanding each other at times. I wouldn't be unusual in being able to guess to within 40 miles or less where another Brit came from, just by their accent.

Some Filipino nurses recruited by Manchester hospitals were given tapes of a tv soap called Coronation Street, set in that city to help them adapt to the local variety of English! This was after they had passed an English fluency test.

I suppose I am expanding semstr's point that it is possible to speak the same language, and still not understand each other!

[sanakruz, ADN]

I always thought an'' english only '' rule was rascist and just another way for management to put nurses in their place; guess I'm in the minority here.Since only 40% of communication is verbal, if I think someone is bad-mouthing me in someway,the evil eye never fails in any language.

[jnette, ASN, EMT-I]

Thank You, RNinICU ! You stated better than I did EXACTLY what I was attempting to get across ! I agree wholeheartedly with every word.

And Heather... about the two discussing amongst themselves in Spanish.... so WHAT !!?? I don't GET it ! This was THEIR own PERSONAL conversation between themselves ! They weren't speaking TO her, nor to YOU.. they were speaking to each OTHER.

Who are we to dictate that everyone must speak the language WE understand at ALL times ! This does NOT fit in with what we as Americans always like to portray to the rest of the world... how wonderful and democratic we are ! To me it reeks of something else. Sometimes people WANT to have a conversation between THEMSELVES... is that so wrong? If you were in China with an American colleague and saw something that grabbed your attention, you were on that elevator, with your friend and wanted to share something personal with her, are you saying you wouldn't have just automatically conveyed your thoughts/opinion to your pal in English? If for no other reason than BECAUSE it WAS a personal thought.. not something you wanted to offend anyone else by, by hearing it? Do we not do the same.. only without a foreign language.. when we talk about something/somebody out of earshot ? C' mon! Lets be HONEST here!

I sometimes feel that the reason we are so bothered by this is because our country has only recently (in relative terms) seen such an influx of foreigners and we are not yet used to hearing all these languages we don't understand... it just "feels wrong" and it bugs us. Heck, I've seen many an American in Europe who was "OFFENDED" because "THEY" (the Germans, French, Italiens.. whoEVER) did not speak "OUR" language ! GEEEEEEEEEEESH !!!! It even bugs us when we're in THEIR country ! Perhaps in time as we grow accustomed to hearing more languages around us, we'll stop being so paranoid, feeling "left out", etc. I know we think we've been exposed to hearing these foreign languages for a "long" time... to us it may SEEM like a long time, but it's really NOT. We're simply not used to the idea of being surrounded by different cultures and languages yet. In time, this, too shall pass. My point is this.. why are foreigners not offended when they are surrounded by other foreign languages? Because they are USED to hearing numerous languages around them at all times! They've been exposed to this for hundreds and hundreds of years. We in America have been isolated and are only now being exposed. It's a new phenomina.

Don't sweat it. Most people who are speaking their mother tongue with friends/colleagues are NOT speaking about US.

And even if they were... who's to say your "friend" down the hall is speaking about you to HER friend back in the locker room ?

Geez. Let's get over it. I'm comfortable enough with who I am to not let such trivia get under my skin.

RN in ICU said it exactly right, so did Psychnurse. It would be a sad day indeed in this great country of ours to start dictating what language one is allowed to speak and when. What's next? My THOUGHTS?

[OBNURSEHEATHER]

Originally posted by jnette

And Heather... about the two discussing amongst themselves in Spanish.... so WHAT !!?? I don't GET it ! This was THEIR own PERSONAL conversation between themselves ! They weren't speaking TO her, nor to YOU.. they were speaking to each OTHER.

Um, but they were in essence gossiping about someone right in front of them. Smiling at her and her baby while they talked about whether or not she was a single mom. Very patronizing and demeaning.

Answer me this jnette, what if the patient had understood Spanish? Anxiously awating your reply......

Heather