I've always read about tension between RN's and LVN's on this board but I never experienced it until now. I'm an RN in a new job where there are a lot of LVN's and due to various circumstances, I was put to work quickly (although not with LVN's yet) and didn't get around to orientation until now.
Anyway, for part of the orientation, LVN's and RN's were put together so, naturally when people were introducing themselves, people were constantly asking if you were an RN or LVN. So ... I didn't think much about it when I asked one of the LVN's if one of the speakers was a supervisor or an RN or LVN.
Then, later on, when we were informed about a meeting, I asked if I needed to attend since my understanding was that it was for LVN's only, not RN's. I had a lot of work to do and thought I would use the time for that instead.
This LVN snapped at me and said: "You need to get over this class thing because we're all nurses here." I was stunned ... all I wanted to know was if I had to attend this meeting or not (and, as it turns out, it was an LVN only meeting).
During orientation we were going over medication administration procedures and I had a few questions, but another LVN informed me that I didn't need to learn it because "the LVN's do most of the work and RN's don't do anything but paperwork around here." Of course it was absurd to suggest that I don't need to learn the facility's medication protocols.
It seems the problem is that the RN's do make a lot more money than the LVN's at this facility ... and I certainly overheard a lot of griping about that. But it's not like we set the pay rates.
Anyway ... this whole thing got me wondering about all those threads I've read where LVN's complain about RN's insulting them. I'm sure these LVN's feel that way about me but I'm certain that I did nothing of the kind.
I thought maybe it was just me but other RN's also mentioned that they got similar comments from the LVN's. I'm starting to wonder if they're going to resent us no matter what we say or do.
I just think the whole thing is kinda sad ... I have utmost respect for LVN's. We haven't even had a chance to work with each other ... yet, it seems, the war has already begun.
On my first day of OB clinical I was shadowing an LPN. I had been warned that there was a bit of "tude" by the LPNs towards the RN students. Anyway she made a comment to me that she "was only an LPN." I immediately corrected her that I did not view her that way. Anyway she told me that she had been told that by some RNs in the past. After I in effect gave her the attaboy she and I got along just fine.
During post clinical I made the observation to my classmates that quite often LPNs are the ones who really know procedures and that it behooves us as students to be respectful because they may be the ones who bail you out in the future. (My mother taught LPNs for over 30 years and I have nothing but respect for that part of the profession because they often have the toughest jobs!)
It turned out that my instructor started her career as an LPN nad she is a CNM today!
Offering my perspective, here... aren't people supposed to function within their scopes of practice collaboratively in a team environment? Isn't that what 4th grade was for? Excuse me, but this is ridiculous.
We have these nifty red and white buttons we wear, stating RN or LPN, and that opened it up again. The RNs didn't really care (other than to think the buttons were unnecessary). The LPNs fumed that it should just say "nurse", that it was demeaning. And no one BUT the LPNs made any issue at all. Personally, I don't see why it's demeaning: it's ACCURATE; it tells the pt who is taking care of them. It's not like it says "real nurse" and "sorta nurse"!!
Yeah ... I guess that's what threw me off. I didn't realize until now that referring to someone's appropriate legal title could be considered demeaning but, apparently, that's how some LVN's feel about it.
I just thought it was weird that we had only just started orientation and some of the LVN's were already pretty hostile when we hadn't even had a chance to work together yet.
I think the bottom line is that they're upset about the money. The RN's make $4K more a month than they do at this facility. So it's probably misplaced frustration more than anything else.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I am an LPN that does not wish to become an RN. But, I want to work as a collaborative team member with the RNs. I get the same comments of 'low paid nurse' or 'let's play nurse' from others as well, but, I don't let it get to me, because I am not going to let peer pressure force me to take on a position that I clearly do not want.
But, I have been embarassed about how some of my fellow LPNs act. This LPN-RN war is enormous, and I often wonder when I will see it end. I hear many LPNs say that they wish to become RNs to earn more money and respect, yet, they do not really want the full responsibility of the RN. There are lazy NURSES, lazy PEOPLE in life. The one perceives that the RN is 'only doing paperwork' is sadly mistaken. They do much more than that (the ones that work). It is the weight of the responsibility of that paperwork, dotting the Is and crossing the Ts along with the delegation and ultimate responsibility that many LPNs do not see. It makes no sense (to me) to challenge an RN just to be spiteful and bitchy, because this person is equally if not even more stressed out than I am. I have seen some LPNs make the RNs life miserable, and that is wrong. Just today, we had an LPN tell a physician that we don't administer clonidine in the clinic. It embarassed me, because one, we do give it, and also, she was just lazy. And this is a person that is studying to become an RN. Just because she is studying now doesn't mean that the patient that needs the meds should have to suffer. There is another one that I am friends with that constantly goes to report what an RN does not do, making the unit very tense. She brings negativity wherever she goes. This would naturally make an RN suspicious of LPNs, making it harder to retain respect for us.
Now, what is upsetting to me is those that really believe that every LPN should aspire and become an RN, or should at least want to be one. For me, there is nothing further than the truth. I made a conscious decision to become an LPN because I assessed MYSELF...imagined myself in the same shoes and making the same decisions as an RN and could not see myself doing it. My job had a program that offered a leave of absence with pay, paid our tuition and offered the choice to become either an LPN or RN, and even though I had an exceptional GPA to be accepted into an RN program, I said 'no way' and now, I still do not regret my decision. I am comfortable with myself, I do the best that I can to display team work and professionalism, and once my co-workers got to know me, they saw me as part of the TEAM and are glad to have me.
Bottom line, we are NURSES with different, but blurred scopes of practice. Those that do accept me, I call them sisters in white, and let's do it TOGETHER.
This really isn't an argument (at least for me it isn't). Obviously these tensions haven't gone away ... it' still affecting many people's work lives.
I realize this is an old topic but the point, really, is to try figure out how to best deal with these tensions when we have to work together. This isn't like the ADN vs. BSN debate, which is largely academic.
I figured I'd have to at least work with people first and do something wrong before they'd get upset with me. I didn't anticipate walking into a hostile situation from the get go just because I'm an RN.
I'm just really surprized by the whole thing ... I'd always read about it but guess I just didn't realize that it was this bad.
So ... if the LVN's want to be referred to as nurses and nothing else ... that's what I'll do ... and anything else for that matter to try to smooth things over.
This would naturally make an RN suspicious of LPNs, making it harder to retain respect for us.
I'm already noticing this ... some of the new RN's are already getting pretty defensive. And they were scolding me for "not standing up to the LVN's" and "letting them talk to you like that."
They really don't know me yet ... I'm no shrinking violet. If anything, I always have to watch myself because I can sometimes be too aggressive.
But I also know what happens when you're too easily offended and jump the gun, so to speak. Behavior breeds behavior ... and hostility just breeds more hostility. The situation can easily escalate into war and a war doesn't help anyone.
As much as some of the LVN's may have misbehaved ... I know that they're just really frustrated. The fact is: they're not getting much appreciation or compensation for what they do and quite frankly, I'd be frustrated too. They can't take it out on management so, I guess we're the easier targets, so to speak.
So I really don't take it personally ... and I'm not reacting to it for now (at least publicly). If it really gets out of hand then I'll put my foot down but, for now, I'm trying to take the high road and find a better, more productive way to deal with this.
I'm not jealous of RN's. It's not about wanting to aspire to something someone else is. I already have a bachelors in journalsim. I went the LPN route FIRST so I could begin working quicker and begin a family. I am now currently enrolled in an RN program. I have always wanted to become an RN, but not for the "title" or any other silly prestigious reasons some RN's think LPN's want to become RN's. Becoming an RN opens possibliities up to me not awailable as an LPN. Lastly, I guess it's hard for you to understand what it's like to have people ask you if your a nurse or an LPN?. Or if they ask you if your an RN and you say no, they say OOOOHhh., with the tone of their voice getting lower towards the end of the word. Or how about when other RN's that don't realize your an LPN ask you if you "mind" having to wear an LPN pixus badge (I'm agency, so I get a temporary badge for the pixus most places I go). I'ts frustrating to just not be appreciated and recognized and JUDGED soley on the merits of your work. It's frustrating to meet people on a daily basis who automatically assume that the person with the RN after their name is a better nurse. This whole RN/LPN "thing" isn't LPN's being "sensitive". It's about being sick and tired of being belittled at every turn no matter what you do. If you don't believe it look around you. I recently worked with an RN (who per her reports has been a nurse for 10 years doing hospital/ER work) that the first night I worked with her she hooked a patients IV antibiotic up to their mahukar. She had no idea what a mahukar was or why it was such a big deal she accessed it. I'm the one who realized what she had done and had to explain it to her. I garauntee you had an LPN done that at this particular hospital that I work at A LOT, LPN's would no longer be allowed to run IV antibiotics, and everyone would have known about it and their would be a big to do. But nothing was said, no continuing education by upper management to make sure it didn't happen agian The next night I worked with her she was going to give my patient 80 mg Oxycodone without even asking me first! I had just left the patients room and had given it to them. Again, nothing. The next night she didn't realize she had a patient until 11 hours into the shift. It took all of that for her to be on the agency Do not return list. Yet time and time again I have seen LPN's on the DNR list for minor infractions not even close to magnitude of hers. My experiences are NOT unique.
I am fully capable of recognizing the differences in education. However as a nurse yourself you should know that school is only a small fraction of where your knowlege is learned. You as a practicing nurse should realize the true test is when you hit the floor and what you do then, the choices you make and if you make a conscious decison to look at each day as another chance to expand your knowledge for the betterment of your patients.
It's about being sick and tired of being belittled at every turn no matter what you do. If you don't believe it look around you.
I see your point. But certainly not all RN's belittle LVN's ... do they? I'm just wondering if it's possible to be innocent until proven guilty ... or have LVN's been beaten up so badly by RN's that they assume all RN's will do the same?
Because what really surprized me was that this hostility started during the first day of orienation. We hadn't even had a chance to introduce ourselves ... much less work together yet.
I'm just asking for a chance to prove myself because I really hate getting off on the wrong foot when I haven't even had a chance to work with someone yet.
HM2VikingRN, RN
4,700 Posts
On my first day of OB clinical I was shadowing an LPN. I had been warned that there was a bit of "tude" by the LPNs towards the RN students. Anyway she made a comment to me that she "was only an LPN." I immediately corrected her that I did not view her that way. Anyway she told me that she had been told that by some RNs in the past. After I in effect gave her the attaboy she and I got along just fine.
During post clinical I made the observation to my classmates that quite often LPNs are the ones who really know procedures and that it behooves us as students to be respectful because they may be the ones who bail you out in the future. (My mother taught LPNs for over 30 years and I have nothing but respect for that part of the profession because they often have the toughest jobs!)
It turned out that my instructor started her career as an LPN nad she is a CNM today!