Having worked in a country which has socialized medicine I can certainly see the pit falls and the benefits. What I don't understand is the fear behind having socialized medicine In my opinion socialized medicine has more positive benefits than negative benefits.
The first and the most obvious concern is the cost to the patient and their family, we all know how devastating an illness can be for patients and their family many times I have witnessed the despair when a diagnoses meant further treatment which insurances question and in some cases wont cover. I have seen patients needing costly drugs to keep them alive and being unable to afford them, causing repeated admissions to repair the damage so called none compliance has caused. The first question in none compliance is were the pts actually refusing to take their medication or was it simply they could not afford to buy their medication because they don't have enough money and other bills need to be paid first? If the real reason is the cost then surely it would be more simple of we provided these medications at a more effective price or that all medications cost $5 no matter what they had? Outrageous I hear you shout but the cost of the repeated admission is far more costly than by helping prevent a repeat admission, by providing medicine they can afford.
How about blood tests could these not be done in the doctors office before the pt leaves for home and forgets to go and have a blood draw, or simply cannot get to the lab to have them drawn. I have personally waited in doctors office hours (and paid for the privilege) then been sent to the lab, miles away to sit and wait for blood work to be done. Why could the doctors not employ somebody to be at the office to draw blood on patients?
We should be looking at improving preventative medicine rather than patch it up and see.
Many times I have seen patients discharged with a new diagnoses of diabetes, no follow up at home can be organised because in my city nothing exists to assist these people. There should be a diabetic home nurse who monitors these patients in their own home-rationale, this would again help prevent admissions for diabetic complications, and none compliance.
So you wonder what has this got to do with socialized medicine. Well, in the UK if you have...
Children
Over 60 for women and over 65 for men
Diabetes
Asthma
Thyroid problems, etc...
...then you get all your medicines for free.
There are in place specialized RN's who focus is on preventative care in the community. There are telephone help lines which anybody can utilize for free.
Maternity care is free a midwife will be assigned to you for the duration of your pregnancy and up to 6 weeks later. The cost of the birth-nothing no matter how you deliver.
I have been asked what kind of care do you receive in a socialized medicine country and I ask them, I am a product of socialized medicine you tell me how my care differs from nurses who have paid outrageous amounts of money to train as a nurse?
Of course even in the UK you can have private care if you chose to pay, this is an advantage if you need hip replacements, knee replacements, eye surgeries-other wise you may have to wait. There are initiatives in place to reduce waiting times for surgeries in the NHS and I hear that dr's can now book surgeries from their office at hospitals all over the UK which helps reduce waiting times, plus hospitals get fined if they don't meet their quota.
I agree MRI's and CT's are not as freely available, but again initiatives are in place to improve the waiting times. Emergency care no different all patients will receive emergency care.
Poor conditions yes there are poor hospitals and there are excellent hospitals, no different to Phoenix AZ.
Socialism cannot survive without raising taxes. Taxes have never been levied for the benefit of the taxed. There is no worse tyranny than to force a person to pay for what they do not want merely because you think it would be good for them.
Now I ask you: what is it you want us to pay taxes for? Tell me what I get and perhaps I'll just buy it.
The patient Care and Affordability Act passed today in the House, will benefit everyone but possibly not doctors, who will probably not continue to make billions in their lifetimes through their practices and will be paid according to the Medicare payment schedules that they've accepted for years; and for those who will be taxed a small additional amount, who earn more than $200,000/year; and couples whose combined incomes are greater than $400,000 (I think those figures are close to the actual ones). If that's you, please accept my condolences.
Money hasn't assured happiness. It surely isn't me who will be paying more taxes. And it certainly is not "socialism", as private insurance companies will still be used. Banks will still receive money as a result of their failures, and scams will still be there, and go unpunished. Malpractise will still occur and malpractise insurance remain punitive for everyone, including professionals who are circumspect.
Abortion rights have not increased and stay at the same level regarding funding for them, which is only allowed in incest and rape. Maybe more women will get assistance when they are raped, especially by their husbands. Possibly they will have more counselling. It is their right. Those whose lives are very negatively affected and who may take their inconvenience out on unwanted children will certainly increase the costs, by needs originating from abuse. Wayward priests will still do what they have, to ruin lives of their followers.
If you define "tyranny" as any compulsion to pay for what you personally don't want to pay, then you have been tyrannised your entire working life. If you:
drive on roads that were made using state or federal funds,
needed to eat, drink, or go to the bathroom while travelling on roads
had few if any accidents caused by drunk or otherwise impaired motorists
have good quality tires
been protected from crime that could harm you,
been protected from fires that could take away your home or lives,
had representation in government,
had flood and/or disaster relief,
needed a passport to travel elsewhere,
received a grant or scholarship from the government,
eaten food or
took medicine spared from disease causing organisms,
have been given vaccines
gone to a public school
been to a publicly funded museum or art gallery
enjoyed well made clothing and safe recreational items
been afforded court action for disputes you have, or a public defender
or anyone in your family needed public assistance
or enjoyed any park,
you have benefited from taxes. Those are but a very few of the things benefiting every resident of this country, provided from tax money. Please add other things you think about when enjoying life more due to tax funded things.
You may consider working voluntarily for candidates to public office who seem to espouse what you want. Only by doing that, will you be closer to having contact with them to evaluate their principles.
The patient Care and Affordability Act passed today in the House, will benefit everyone but possibly not doctors, who will probably not continue to make billions in their lifetimes through their practices and will be paid according to the Medicare payment schedules that they've accepted for years; and for those who will be taxed a small additional amount, who earn more than $200,000/year; and couples whose combined incomes are greater than $400,000 (I think those figures are close to the actual ones). If that's you, please accept my condolences.
Money hasn't assured happiness. It surely isn't me who will be paying more taxes. And it certainly is not "socialism", as private insurance companies will still be used. Banks will still receive money as a result of their failures, and scams will still be there, and go unpunished. Malpractise will still occur and malpractise insurance remain punitive for everyone, including professionals who are circumspect.
Abortion rights have not increased and stay at the same level regarding funding for them, which is only allowed in incest and rape. Maybe more women will get assistance when they are raped, especially by their husbands. Possibly they will have more counselling. It is their right. Those whose lives are very negatively affected and who may take their inconvenience out on unwanted children will certainly increase the costs, by needs originating from abuse. Wayward priests will still do what they have, to ruin lives of their followers.
Wow...there ARE people who believe in fairy tales...
I love how everyone says "it just comes out of taxes." Hello!!!! We already spend more than we give the government, hmmmm what does that mean, more taxes!!!!
Also, why does everyone want to cut Doctor's salaries? There aren't many professions where it takes 8 years of higher education plus another 5 years slave labor for next to nothing, before you make decent money. Shouldn't these people be rewarded for working their asses off? If this country continues to cut Dr. salaries the best and the brightest won't decide to be doctors they will go into other professions that WILL reward their hard work.
Specializes in Critical Care, Education, and Acute Care.
If you define "tyranny" as any compulsion to pay for what you personally don't want to pay, then you have been tyrannised your entire working life. If you:
drive on roads that were made using state or federal funds,
needed to eat, drink, or go to the bathroom while travelling on roads
had few if any accidents caused by drunk or otherwise impaired motorists
have good quality tires
been protected from crime that could harm you,
been protected from fires that could take away your home or lives,
had representation in government,
had flood and/or disaster relief,
needed a passport to travel elsewhere,
received a grant or scholarship from the government,
eaten food or
took medicine spared from disease causing organisms,
have been given vaccines
gone to a public school
been to a publicly funded museum or art gallery
enjoyed well made clothing and safe recreational items
been afforded court action for disputes you have, or a public defender
or anyone in your family needed public assistance
or enjoyed any park,
you have benefited from taxes. Those are but a very few of the things benefiting every resident of this country, provided from tax money. Please add other things you think about when enjoying life more due to tax funded things.
You may consider working voluntarily for candidates to public office who seem to espouse what you want. Only by doing that, will you be closer to having contact with them to evaluate their principles.
I'm not sure why you decided that I didn't want any of those things. It sounds a little bit like you are telling me what I like and don't like.
Also, many of those things on your list are not publicly funded, but to go into that detail is way beyond this thread and would get into the rationale behind libertarianism vs liberalism vs conservatism. I'll just leave it by saying that I don't think that the federal government has any business interfering with what a private citizen chooses to do, as long as it is within the citizen's rights and does not interfere with another citizen's rights.
I was working as a Public Health Nurse in Windsor, Ontario Canada in 2962, when 7 doctors there, thought it would be better if there were no insurance companies, and a small amount of money was taken from peoples' paychecks there, that went toward medical care - not for individuals only, but everyone's. The rest is history.
Sure there are complaints, but for the most part it works well. My sister is 80, and just had a 7 hour spinal surgery performed there. Canadians don't come here for surgery because they think it's done better here, they come because they don't want to wait a few months, as their conditions aren't critical and others came before them. They're line cutters.....
Canadian doctors coming to conferences in the United States, interface with physicians whose incomes are astronomical, and became jealous, so they sob hard luck stories here.
I'm not sure why you decided that I didn't want any of those things. It sounds a little bit like you are telling me what I like and don't like.
Also, many of those things on your list are not publicly funded, but to go into that detail is way beyond this thread and would get into the rationale behind libertarianism vs liberalism vs conservatism. I'll just leave it by saying that I don't think that the federal government has any business interfering with what a private citizen chooses to do, as long as it is within the citizen's rights and does not interfere with another citizen's rights.
I didn't mean that you wanted or didn't want those things, as my intention was to point out that good things are done by our government, that most of us enjoy. Laws are written for the benefit of most people, e.g. if someone thinks it's their right to drive over the speed limit, it's not "their right", as possible harm to others could occur from doing that. People lobby politicians to impose their will upon others, when a minority of people want something that others would prefer that they no have, such as guns (let's not get tangential on that one, please).
If any senior citizen who wanted everyone else to oppose the use of email, networking, etc. that computers bring us, the majority of the people who are younger, would assert their right to have computers in every aspect of life. Sometimes you just can't stop progress. However I vote on some issues with my wallet, such as not making payments over the internet, as I distrust its security involving credit card and ATM #s. Time will tell if that's right, and the time may come when that's the only way bills can be paid, just as the wrongs committed by insurance companies have been so agriegious, that laws had to be enacted against them. (Finally came full circle to the topic.)
The things on the list I wrote, are funded mainly from taxed gas, automobile and driving licenses, real estate taxes, school bonds charged in real estate taxes, etc. People who oppose anything, can contact others with similar feelings, and with enough funds raised, hire a lobbyist for that point of view. That usually results in the accusation that a law or politician(s) was "bought", by those who oppose whatever that is. Sometimes the opposition has nothing to do with the issue at hand.........
I love how everyone says "it just comes out of taxes." Hello!!!! We already spend more than we give the government, hmmmm what does that mean, more taxes!!!!
Also, why does everyone want to cut Doctor's salaries? There aren't many professions where it takes 8 years of higher education plus another 5 years slave labor for next to nothing, before you make decent money. Shouldn't these people be rewarded for working their asses off? If this country continues to cut Dr. salaries the best and the brightest won't decide to be doctors they will go into other professions that WILL reward their hard work.
Everyone wants to cut doctor's salaries because they make far more than enough to reward the level of their work. Let's not act as though doctors work harder than anyone else who makes comparable money. That simply isn't true. If the only reason that the "best and brightest" go into medicine is for the money, perhaps we should find someone else to do it for other reasons. You also assume that these "best and brightest" have other choices that would pay them a fraction of what they would make even under lowered reimbursement schedules. Can you provide some examples of what else it is that you think they might do to even pay them 80% of what a doctor makes? Furthermore, do you really think they would be qualified and able to do the job?
I'm not sure why you decided that I didn't want any of those things. It sounds a little bit like you are telling me what I like and don't like.
Also, many of those things on your list are not publicly funded, but to go into that detail is way beyond this thread and would get into the rationale behind libertarianism vs liberalism vs conservatism. I'll just leave it by saying that I don't think that the federal government has any business interfering with what a private citizen chooses to do, as long as it is within the citizen's rights and does not interfere with another citizen's rights.
What the federal government is trying to do is not interfere in the lives of private citizens. What they are attempting to do is to break the monopolistic hold of a healthcare establishment that has been gaining steam and choking the American public for the last 40 to 50 years. The rationale is that people deserve to have access to affordable care and people shouldn't be able to gouge them for it.
Everyone wants to cut doctor's salaries because they make far more than enough to reward the level of their work.
I disagree, people want to cut their salaries because they have no idea what it takes to become a doctor and assume that they "make too much money."
Let's not act as though doctors work harder than anyone else who makes comparable money. That simply isn't true. If the only reason that the "best and brightest" go into medicine is for the money, perhaps we should find someone else to do it for other reasons. You also assume that these "best and brightest" have other choices that would pay them a fraction of what they would make even under lowered reimbursement schedules. Can you provide some examples of what else it is that you think they might do to even pay them 80% of what a doctor makes? Furthermore, do you really think they would be qualified and able to do the job?
everyone wants to cut doctor's salaries because they make far more than enough to reward the level of their work.
i'm sorry but what do you know about their level of work? do you have any idea what someone has to go through to become a doctor? years and years of no salary, 32 hour shifts, time away from their families, etc, etc. people fail to notice the many years student doctors put into the health system for free (plus the years of residency).
let's not act as though doctors work harder than anyone else who makes comparable money.
...but do those that make comparable money have someone's life in their hands? probably not.
that simply isn't true. if the only reason that the "best and brightest" go into medicine is for the money, perhaps we should find someone else to do it for other reasons.
i'm sorry but i personally would want the best and the brightest to be my doctor. and let's not kid ourselves, most people care about their salary. and if you say you don't you are lying.
you also assume that these "best and brightest" have other choices that would pay them a fraction of what they would make even under lowered reimbursement schedules. can you provide some examples of what else it is that you think they might do to even pay them 80% of what a doctor makes? furthermore, do you really think they would be qualified and able to do the job?
first of all i am not implying that doctors will leave the industry to do something else (although that does happen). i am saying people will just not chose it at all. they will go into other industries completely. also these "lower reimbursement schedules" are making it so hospitals are actually losing money on some surgeries. i know this because i work for a huge top 5 hospital. and another thing... how much do you think doctor's make? everyone seems to think they are all millionaires or something. true there are a few that make alot of money but many of them make less than 150k. a nurse can easily make 100k, do you want to cut their salary as well?
Everyone wants to cut doctor's salaries because they make far more than enough to reward the level of their work.
I disagree, people want to cut their salaries because they have no idea what it takes to become a doctor and assume that they "make too much money."
Let's not act as though doctors work harder than anyone else who makes comparable money. That simply isn't true. If the only reason that the "best and brightest" go into medicine is for the money, perhaps we should find someone else to do it for other reasons. You also assume that these "best and brightest" have other choices that would pay them a fraction of what they would make even under lowered reimbursement schedules. Can you provide some examples of what else it is that you think they might do to even pay them 80% of what a doctor makes? Furthermore, do you really think they would be qualified and able to do the job?
People understand that it takes some work to become a doctor. I just don't understand why when people try to justify what they make, they try to paint this picture that doctors become slaves and work around the clock for 20 years to be eligible to make the money. They also try to make people think that nobody works harder than doctors do for their money. That simply isn't true. There are lots of professions that make less money than doctors do and work just as hard if not harder. You are clueless if you want to make such an argument and then ignore my request for examples. It just shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.
lamazeteacher
2,170 Posts
The patient Care and Affordability Act passed today in the House, will benefit everyone but possibly not doctors, who will probably not continue to make billions in their lifetimes through their practices and will be paid according to the Medicare payment schedules that they've accepted for years; and for those who will be taxed a small additional amount, who earn more than $200,000/year; and couples whose combined incomes are greater than $400,000 (I think those figures are close to the actual ones). If that's you, please accept my condolences.
Money hasn't assured happiness. It surely isn't me who will be paying more taxes. And it certainly is not "socialism", as private insurance companies will still be used. Banks will still receive money as a result of their failures, and scams will still be there, and go unpunished. Malpractise will still occur and malpractise insurance remain punitive for everyone, including professionals who are circumspect.
Abortion rights have not increased and stay at the same level regarding funding for them, which is only allowed in incest and rape. Maybe more women will get assistance when they are raped, especially by their husbands. Possibly they will have more counselling. It is their right. Those whose lives are very negatively affected and who may take their inconvenience out on unwanted children will certainly increase the costs, by needs originating from abuse. Wayward priests will still do what they have, to ruin lives of their followers.
If you define "tyranny" as any compulsion to pay for what you personally don't want to pay, then you have been tyrannised your entire working life. If you:
drive on roads that were made using state or federal funds,
needed to eat, drink, or go to the bathroom while travelling on roads
had few if any accidents caused by drunk or otherwise impaired motorists
have good quality tires
been protected from crime that could harm you,
been protected from fires that could take away your home or lives,
had representation in government,
had flood and/or disaster relief,
needed a passport to travel elsewhere,
received a grant or scholarship from the government,
eaten food or
took medicine spared from disease causing organisms,
have been given vaccines
gone to a public school
been to a publicly funded museum or art gallery
enjoyed well made clothing and safe recreational items
been afforded court action for disputes you have, or a public defender
or anyone in your family needed public assistance
or enjoyed any park,
you have benefited from taxes. Those are but a very few of the things benefiting every resident of this country, provided from tax money. Please add other things you think about when enjoying life more due to tax funded things.
You may consider working voluntarily for candidates to public office who seem to espouse what you want. Only by doing that, will you be closer to having contact with them to evaluate their principles.