Slugged in the chest by med-surg patient

Aneroo, LPN · Jan 14, 2006

I'm a new member and this is my first post. I've been a RN for 15 years and today was the first time this has ever happened. The patient was very nice and cooperative all today. Found out I needed a Urine C&S and he would need a straight cath (wearing diapers). I explained procedure to patient and he noded he understood (patient had a trach). Cleaned him and was just about to insert catheter and he hauled off and slugged me in the chest. It took me by surprised. I jumped back and he pulled back his fist again. Reported this to charge nurse who spoke to him about not hitting and he smiled and nodded okay, and as she was leaving out the door he threw a cup at her. Found out another nurse got slapped by a patient twice today. Full Moon? Friday the 13th? I would expect this on a pysch floor. Makes me wonder. How many med-surg nurses out there experienced violence from their patients today?

WTH! There should have been no "speaking to"- there should have been a "We're calling security" moment and some restraints. Were they with it?

Maybe it's just where I work, but that sort of behavior is NOT tolerated- I'm not here to be some patients b**ch! God help the drunk fool who almost kicked me in the stomach a few weeks ago when applying restraints to him.

ETA- Welcome to allnurses!

nursemaa · Jan 14, 2006

Wow...was this patient oriented? I was punched in the chest once by a very confused patient. While it certainly hurt me, I wasn't angry because he really was out of it. But if the patient was coherent, I would have definitely called security to deal with him!

stomper · Jan 14, 2006

No, this is a VA hospital and they won't let Security touch a patient. Lots of politics (write congressman, etc..)After the doctor was notified I wrote a report about it but nothing will happen. Supervisor blushed it off as patient being confused. Not!!! Needless to say hospital is short staffed and getting shorter staffed by the day.

SFCardiacRN · Jan 14, 2006

I work at a VA and security would have escorted him out immediately! Patient violence is NOT tolerated at my facility.

stomper · Jan 14, 2006

I see a thread just like this in another forum. Going to go read what they have to say.

VeryPlainJane · Jan 14, 2006

I was knocked out cold once from a 98 year old woman she couldn't have weighed more than 80lbs. I had a shiner for two weeks. When the doc in the ED was checking me out he told me the first think you learn in health care is DUCK AND COVER! lmao

Mule · Jan 16, 2006

No, this is a VA hospital and they won't let Security touch a patient. Lots of politics (write congressman, etc..)After the doctor was notified I wrote a report about it but nothing will happen. Supervisor blushed it off as patient being confused. Not!!! Needless to say hospital is short staffed and getting shorter staffed by the day.- Stomper

This is really an intriguing post. Would it be out of line to ask which VA this incident happened at? No, I'm really not comming in here on my first post to be a stinker or a PITA, but that really has me curious. I am a VA Police Officer, in fact, I'm also the Field Training Officer/Sergeant. We're probably different animals than what most of you who are at private, community, or state facilities are used to. Since the VA is federal, we're congressionally recognized federal Police Officers. Yeah, Club Fed Cops... with itty-bitty jurisdictions ( go figure). Anyway, we have SOP's and even mandated policy on the handling of disruptive PT's. The only draw back is that if we're not called, which we don't mind being called, we don't know what's going on and can't act on that particular situation. The commitment made to the veteran is the promise made by President Abraham Lincoln- "To care for he who has born the battle, and his widow and his orphan". A hundred and forty years later, the promise still stands- to provide the best care available to the veteran. OK, yeah, there are some catches- the PT can't go breaking Federal and VA laws and policies. If he/she introduces drugs, alcohol, weapons, explosives, commits assaults, etc- we have the authority to disrupt his/her little rant, and sometimes with consultation to medical staff (in cases of dire need of care) we have the authority to disarm, subdue, restrain, and/or arrest the evil doer. Our commitment to maintaining law and order also goes to the protection the staff and visitors... but we can't do that if we're not called. What makes my job such a great job to show up at is the professional courtesy shared between most of us and most of the staff (there are a few stinkers in every crowd). For the most part, we have a good working relationship with the nurses. And, we try to take the silly things with a grain of salt, such as "Mr XYZ won't let me stick this catheter up his..." another one is "Mr XYZ wants to go AMA!" "Is he under a court order to stay, or a resident PT that would pose a clear and present danger to himself or others if he were allowed to leave?" "No" "Has he committed a crime?" "No" "I'm sorry, it's not up to me to violate his civil rights. It's not illegal to refuse treatment, and for us to keep him would constitute false imprisonment." We have to be as much abreast of civil, federal, and constitutional law as much, if not more, than ya'll do. We try to be patient with and understanding of nurses who have been around since the 1980's when the VA had Security Guards- and have the ingrained habit of calling us such. But, sadly, some of us are a little hard pressed to be what you might call neighborly with those who know better and continue to call us by incorrect titles out of spite. You see, we're not simply hired green off of the streets. All of us have had prior law enforcement experience, which not only means at least one police academy (usually 6 to 9 months) but also either 4 to 20 years of Military experience, plus, many VA Officers have at least bachelor degrees in criminal justice or some other law enforcement related field of study. That's just what the typical Officer will have prior to his being hired by the VA. Once I get a-hold of a new recruit, he'll receive another 420 hours of training and education before he/she is deemed a qualified Federal Police Officer. And once he meets all the requirements and maintains acceptable standards for one year- he's pretty much in it for the long run. Personally, I would never address a RN, BSN as a CNO or a Candy Striper (darn, I just gave a hint to my age for knowing what a Candy Striper was). Some things we just try to work around. The VA is, in my humble opinion, a great place to work- Stomper, you might mention that we even voluntarily submit to those Joint Accredidation inspections. If you're stuck at a facility where, well, things just aren't going your way and your supervisors and union can't right the wrongs- I'm more than willing to bet there are a great many other locations that would be grateful to have your background and skills. If, for whatever reasons, moving is not an option- then I hope your facilities' Police Officers and your staff can get on a little better terms. Training, word of mouth, cooperation, and professionalism goes a long way.

Bipley · Jan 16, 2006

No, this is a VA hospital and they won't let Security touch a patient. Lots of politics (write congressman, etc..)After the doctor was notified I wrote a report about it but nothing will happen. Supervisor blushed it off as patient being confused. Not!!! Needless to say hospital is short staffed and getting shorter staffed by the day.- Stomper
This is really an intriguing post. Would it be out of line to ask which VA this incident happened at? No, I'm really not comming in here on my first post to be a stinker or a PITA, but that really has me curious. I am a VA Police Officer, in fact, I'm also the Field Training Officer/Sergeant. We're probably different animals than what most of you who are at private, community, or state facilities are used to. Since the VA is federal, we're congressionally recognized federal Police Officers. Yeah, Club Fed Cops... with itty-bitty jurisdictions ( go figure). Anyway, we have SOP's and even mandated policy on the handling of disruptive PT's. The only draw back is that if we're not called, which we don't mind being called, we don't know what's going on and can't act on that particular situation. The commitment made to the veteran is the promise made by President Abraham Lincoln- "To care for he who has born the battle, and his widow and his orphan". A hundred and forty years later, the promise still stands- to provide the best care available to the veteran. OK, yeah, there are some catches- the PT can't go breaking Federal and VA laws and policies. If he/she introduces drugs, alcohol, weapons, explosives, commits assaults, etc- we have the authority to disrupt his/her little rant, and sometimes with consultation to medical staff (in cases of dire need of care) we have the authority to disarm, subdue, restrain, and/or arrest the evil doer. Our commitment to maintaining law and order also goes to the protection the staff and visitors... but we can't do that if we're not called. What makes my job such a great job to show up at is the professional courtesy shared between most of us and most of the staff (there are a few stinkers in every crowd). For the most part, we have a good working relationship with the nurses. And, we try to take the silly things with a grain of salt, such as "Mr XYZ won't let me stick this catheter up his..." another one is "Mr XYZ wants to go AMA!" "Is he under a court order to stay, or a resident PT that would pose a clear and present danger to himself or others if he were allowed to leave?" "No" "Has he committed a crime?" "No" "I'm sorry, it's not up to me to violate his civil rights. It's not illegal to refuse treatment, and for us to keep him would constitute false imprisonment." We have to be as much abreast of civil, federal, and constitutional law as much, if not more, than ya'll do. We try to be patient with and understanding of nurses who have been around since the 1980's when the VA had Security Guards- and have the ingrained habit of calling us such. But, sadly, some of us are a little hard pressed to be what you might call neighborly with those who know better and continue to call us by incorrect titles out of spite. You see, we're not simply hired green off of the streets. All of us have had prior law enforcement experience, which not only means at least one police academy (usually 6 to 9 months) but also either 4 to 20 years of Military experience, plus, many VA Officers have at least bachelor degrees in criminal justice or some other law enforcement related field of study. That's just what the typical Officer will have prior to his being hired by the VA. Once I get a-hold of a new recruit, he'll receive another 420 hours of training and education before he/she is deemed a qualified Federal Police Officer. And once he meets all the requirements and maintains acceptable standards for one year- he's pretty much in it for the long run. Personally, I would never address a RN, BSN as a CNO or a Candy Striper (darn, I just gave a hint to my age for knowing what a Candy Striper was). Some things we just try to work around. The VA is, in my humble opinion, a great place to work- Stomper, you might mention that we even voluntarily submit to those Joint Accredidation inspections. If you're stuck at a facility where, well, things just aren't going your way and your supervisors and union can't right the wrongs- I'm more than willing to bet there are a great many other locations that would be grateful to have your background and skills. If, for whatever reasons, moving is not an option- then I hope your facilities' Police Officers and your staff can get on a little better terms. Training, word of mouth, cooperation, and professionalism goes a long way.

I have to fess up here. The original post didn't ring true. The reason it didn't ring true is that Mule is a dear dear friend of mine. He's like my big bro. I read the post and thought... nawwww, can't be!!! VA security isn't like security in a private hospital. They are REAL policeman with arresting powers. They can haul your butt to jail just like any other policeman. They aren't like the typical security folks in a private hospital, these guys are REAL policemen.

I asked him about this thread... he had the same raised eyebrow I did. I begged and pleaded with him to come here and discuss this issue. Finally, he agreed.

I've received an education. My biggest education is that I WISH we ALL had this level of security in our hospitals. Let's face it, we NEED it. During a time where gangs, drug wars, etc. are the norm, we need REAL LIVE policemen in our security depts. We no longer need the 90# wannabe's, we NEED real policemen running the show in security. VA's have this, the rest of us likely don't.

BTW... Mule? :blushkiss You are a gem! Thanks for the education~

SmilingBluEyes · Jan 16, 2006

I can say with certainty the security in my hospital does NOT make ME feel secure.

LPN1974, LPN · Jan 16, 2006

Well, IMHO, if the patient is beating up the nurses and throwing things at them, then he apparently doesn't want treatment for his condition.

Get his discharge papers in order, send him on his way, then call the police and file charges.

Why keep someone in the hospital against their refusal to accept treatment?

What are you going to do for him if he won't accept treatment?

Mule · Jan 16, 2006

LPN1974- Bingo! My thoughts exactly. If nothing else, build a history on the PT and after a number of unfavorable entries- the PT could likely be Red Flagged or Trespassed and denied treatment at that facility. The thought of having to travel 200 miles or more to the next closest VA is a sobering thought to some of these old sore-heads on limited incomes.

Edit:

Does anyone know what that little "Warn: (0%)" thing is about? Have I already upset somebody? I don't see it on anyone elses' posts.