slave labor

RN4HIRE · Feb 27, 2007

hi diane,

in response to your question of "any ideas who/what i can complain to? don't suggest mgmt. they are well aware....... and have done nothing to change this. i thought maybe state bon? would they do anything? board of health? any ideas?"

because az labor laws do not require it's employeers to offer breaks, or lunches, and osha in az does not enforce it's own guidelines, we (a right to work state) are limited to who will lend a compassionate ear to nurses. however, you should be aware that the national nurses organizing committee-arizona has introduced an unsafe patient care hotline. you can report unsafe conditions at: 1-800-496-0213.

you may also consider strength in in numbers approach. for example, the southern arizona nurses coalition (saznc) has merged with the national nurses organizing committee - arizona (nnoc-az). this merger is the culmination of years of work by saznc to build a stronger voice for nurses across arizona in patient and professional advocacy. the membership of nnoc-az is now over 1000 voices strong! for more information you can contact the membership department at 510-273-2200 or by email at [email protected].

i would also take a mental note in how your hospital is not supporting its own nursing staff. they sound like a for-profit hospital. this could be the tale-tale heart of your hosptial's reactions in a malpractice suit. do you carry your own malpractice insurance? i defiently would. they will hang you out to dry, if they can prove you didn't follow their policy or procedure. if their is not enough staff, you must use your "chain of command" by writing an incident report. otherwise, they can deny that they knew anything about the staffing situation, and you can be held liaible for not meeting "the standard of care" when something goes wrong. on the other side of the coin, if you think you are safe in using registery, think again. my registery teaches us, if something goes wrong to document "charge nurse made aware." this would shift responsiblity to you, and perhaps shift the blame in a malpractice suit. my advice is to get out while you still can.....

fromtheheartRN · Feb 28, 2007

This "break issue" is NOT just ER! It is part of the nursing culture. Getting a lunch break on my floor is the EXCEPTION and not the rule.

And things will NOT change if we all run around (and ourselves into the ground) and keep taking it with the smile and a "good attitude."

It takes action...and a strong UNION.

They are VERY rare, but I actually LOVE days when I can be caught up enough to offer my assistance to my neighboring nurse--or any other nurse on the floor for that matter--who has a heavier assignment so they can get a lunch break in. I love it because it makes someone else's days a little less stressful, they are thankful, and it is what makes us all feel like we are a team.

But, like I said, those days are VERY rare. These are the days when we are staffed fully with a 3:1 ratio and float techs. This is the matrix we are SUPPOSED to follow!!! But when staffing is low...and/or the hospital is near divert, the matrix is thrown out the window.

IT IS A STAFFING ISSUE AND NURSING CULTURE!

In the ER, it can be easily solved with a designated float RN to cover all lunch breaks.

I worked in an ER previously, and that is exactly how they solved the very same problem...successfully and permanantly. But then again, the hospital was a "not for profit" Catholic hospital with a very good union. It also helped that the director went to bat and fought for her nurses to get it changed.

carachel2 · Feb 28, 2007

In the ER, it can be easily solved with a designated float RN to cover all lunch breaks.

SING IT SISTER ! To heck with all the sign-on bonuses, I think there would be a MASS exodus to jobs like this that promised to take care of their nurses, respect them JUST A BIT and provide this kind of service.

suzanne4, RN · Feb 28, 2007

just a note:

use this forum for constructive ideas, not for criticizing one another. personal attacks are not permitted on this forum.

please come out and play nice.:balloons:

each is entitled to their own opinion, please do not critique another if they do not have the same beliefs as you. nurses are nurses are nurses.

nurturing_angel · Feb 28, 2007

I am a diabetic who used to never get breaks. By the time I would squeeze a lunch break in, my blood sugar would be in the toilet. BTW, at my hospital no eating or drinking in pt care areas or nursing station is allowed so the protein bar in the pocket idea won't fly. One day, while trying to get an admission done on a very nice older gentleman, my blood sugar started to drop. Quite rapidly, I began to sweat, feel nauseous and my hands became very shaky. It was about 3 in the afternoon and I had not had time to get off the floor to eat. Well, my hands were shaking enough that I could barely hold my pen but I was determined to finish this admission. Finally this gentleman spoke out and asked me if I was ill. Always the good nurse, I said no. He pointed out that he had noticed I had a medic alert necklace on and I seemed to be ill and he was just concerned for me. So I told him that I was a diabetic and hadn't eaten lunch but I would go soon. He smiled and said to me..."You'll go now. What good will you be taking care of me if you are lying on the floor somewhere waiting for someone to take care of you?" I went and took a short break.

Our pts want to trust that we can take care of them and most are smart enough to know we can't do this if we are not taking care of ourselves. My care for my patients starts with my care for myself. It isn't being selfish or anything.

SillyLilly · Mar 1, 2007

I would love to be able to take a lunch break, but it's not something that I'm going to dwell on or complain to management about. There's nothing they nor I can do....we can't lock down the ER until after we've had our dinner. On days that I do get my lunch break, I'm going to enjoy it and be thankful for it, because I know that I may not get one on the next shift.

:eek: I work 12 hour shifts. Granted, Im a new grad and a bit slower and not as organized as my fellow employees, but many days, most of us have not sat down to even chart 5 hours into the shift, and do not have time for a 'lunch' 8 hours into the shift. Then, we get news that we have to take this big admission, or they need to float one of our nurses, and one of the techs are leaving at 330pm with no one coming in to replace them. But they have NO consideration that we have not sat down and eaten or had checked our charts for orders.

That may be your opinion. Not needing a lunch break. But I WILL NOT STAND FOR IT. I will sooner call my manager down and have them cover while I take a 15 minute break (which is usally alll i take on a 12 hour shift) before skipping it on a regular basis. I have yet to have needed to do that. Most of my fellow day shift nurses will try to accomadate each other to ensure some sort of lunch break. I appreciate that.

I do agree that this idea of martyrdom is what is contributing to the working conditions many hospitals have for their RNs. I can understand if I were working in a natural disaster area or out in the very rural areas struck with epidemics of illness, say in Africa-which I would do as a volunteer. But I will not accept that here. Not on a continuous basis.

carachel2 · Mar 1, 2007

How would you have felt knowing that the reason you sat in the waiting room for hours with a broken ankle in severe pain was that the nurses were taking their lunch break

Somehow you have confused taking a 20-30 minute lunch break with sitting on your dupa and eating bon bons ???!!! GMAB. I would SO much rather my nurse sit and EAT and be refreshed to take care of me than to greet me at 3 in the afternoon and not had anything to eat all day.

anne74 · Mar 1, 2007

Come on now - you just need to be creative. Why don't you have all the ER nurses wear foleys with leg bags and hook up some TPN? Maybe you could craft some kind of a camel-back back-pak to carry the TPN, so you wouldn't have to bother with an IV pole?

Seriously - are we forgetting ER nurses are human? They need to eat and pee just like everyone else. All these people who get mad when they hear a nurse is eating his/her lunch while they're sitting in the waiting room - would they ever stand such work conditions in their job? Absolutely not!

These environments are ridiculuous! And if you stay there and put up with it you are an enabler. Why would the hospital do anything if they have people willing to show up every day?

I worked on a med/surg floor with the same story - no breaks, no lunch (I lost 17 lbs in 6 months). What did I do? I quit. Now I work in a unit where I not only get lunch every day, but I also get 45 minutes to eat! We even have a nurse come in during the day to cover lunch breaks.

The only thing management will listen to is when good, experienced nurses start leaving, and they're hit with extra costs to recruit and retain employees. They only know money. Very sad, but very true.

Good luck!

NicoleRN07, RN · Mar 2, 2007

I'm not saying that you should never get a break....believe you me, I enjoy my 30 minutes as much as the next person, all I'm saying is that in the world of nursing, things happen that can not be controlled, and there is not time to take your lunch break, nor is it appropriate. When I am in charge, I always make sure that my staff gets to at least get a few minutes to sit down and regroup, but, when I have 20 people waiting to be seen, 10 to be triaged, 21 already in the back, with a pile of orders that need to be carried out, then NO, we will not have a break until things are at least partially caught up. My needs and the needs of my coworkers are important, but, we can not simply slow down the process of treating patients in the ER while we get our breaks in. Complaining to higher management is going to do no good, because you guys are right, they don't care, but honestly, they can not control the situations that we encounter day to day that sometimes prevent us from getting our breaks. Of course, they could hire more nurses, but really, is that going to make a difference? If you have high volume and high acuity patients, then you need an extra hand or two, and you're just going to have one more nurse who didn't get a break that shift. Nursing is not like most jobs where you get to a stopping point and can leisurely take a lunch, most days there is no stopping point. Sure, you can have a float nurse care for your patients while you break, but when you have an AMI patient who is unstable, are you really going to feel comfortable reporting off to another nurse and going to eat? I know I'm not......I know if I were the patient, then I wouldn't want my nurse to leave me with a different nurse who knew only what was given to her in report so she could go eat. That, in my opinion is selfish, and uncaring. We should never put our needs ahead of our patients, especially when our need is the need to eat, and our patient needs life saving measures.

RedcarRN · Mar 2, 2007

I think 99% of people that go into nursing, do so, because they truly care about people. We understand the human body and we know it cannot perform optimally if it doesn't get fuel. This is just a simple fact.

When the ER staff are 'hammered' shift after shift after shift, it gets very dissheartening. We can't really 'care' for the patients, because we may have an additional 4 patients, each, that are on hallway beds.

We end up rushing from one patient to another 'doing' things to/for them, but rarely having the time to actually connect with them. If you don't have any kind of break, then you don't even have time to re-connect with your self.

One of the best things about ER nursing, and one of the main things, I believe, that keeps nurses in this situation, is that you have the opportunity to actually help people with your knowledge, but also, to be able to BE THERE for the patient and family, in, what may be a life-shattering event, for them.

ER nurses will handle whatever situation comes up, because that is what we can also do. But, if we don't ever have the time (lunch-break) to even connect with ourselves, and we don't feel that we have been able to 'be there' for the patient/family that we know, really needed us. Or for our fellow nurses who may need some warm-fuzzies too. Then the whole 12 hours just seems like a meaningless marathon, one that we failed, because we didn't get to do what we know we should do, the things we do best. Be there and care.

We can face any challenge and we can see as many patients as are thrown at us, but they're not going to get the care they deserve, or the care that we want to give, and if we don't get to feel like we've done a good job at the end of the day, we're going to burn out.

Chaya, ASN, RN · Mar 2, 2007

I just thought of something else you could do. Send an anonymous message to your local TV and radio stations and newspaper. Address it to the public. Tell them that, except for dire emergencies, it is dangerous to their health to come to the ER at _____ times because staff are starving and irritable and not thinking clearly, due to never getting a lunch break. I'm sure that would go over well with everyone. Just kidding, LOL, but public outcry might be a good thing. Maybe your local political leaders can help you?

My thoughts exactly! I don't know how to get the media involved but the message would be: "Be SCARED! Be VERY scared!" Those of us on the inside of healthcare are surprised those few well-publicized disasters you do hear about don't happen far more often; they don't because so many caregivers are operating at 110% for 8-12 hours straight every shift they work!

lindarn · Mar 2, 2007

My thoughts exactly! I don't know how to get the media involved but the message would be: "Be SCARED! Be VERY scared!" Those of us on the inside of healthcare are surprised those few well-publicized disasters you do hear about don't happen far more often; they don't because so many caregivers are operating at 110% for 8-12 hours straight every shift they work!

The reason that the public does not hear about the dangerous conditions in most hospitals today, is because not enough nurses are unionzed and/or work in "right to work" (for less), and/or "at will states", that give them NO PROTECTION AGAINST A RETALIATORY DISCHARGE". They can be fired for ANYTHING", and hospitals will not hestitate to fire anyone who informs the public about the dangerous, unsafe conditions in hospitals today.

That was why, ten years ago, when the hospitals started the "downsizing" of nursing care, laid off thousands of experienced nurses, hired thousands of unlicensed assistive personnel, and attempted to run hospitals with as few nurses as possible, nurses had their hands tied, and were unable to inform the public to what was going on. We should have been screaming in the streets. Isn't that what the public schools teachers do? But they have the protection of the Teachers Associations, who carry alot of political clout.

Do you think that the hospital and nursing home industry are stupid? Just tell nurses for years how "unprofessional" it is to unionize, brainwash them in nursing school, and then you have a group of subservient sheep, who are too scared, to "make waves". It was the perfect crime. And nurses still don't get it. Amazing!

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington