Slamming in IVP meds and Running Incompatible Meds Together: Is it as bad as they say

Nurses Medications

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When I graduated from nursing school and worked at my first hospital, I was very diligent about pushing meds at the recommended rate; I remember taking up to 4 to 5 minutes just to push dilaudid, morphine, and demerol. Solumedrol was another one that was pushed slowly. In those days I remember actually holding my watch up to the syringe to make sure I wasn't pushing too much too quickly.

Since that time, I moved to a hospital where no one times themselves as they push meds and since transitioning to critical care, I was told by my colleagues that the "ICU way" is just to push everything fast. I'm not talking about critical situations such as codes either - I am talking about just routine doses of versed for conscious sedation, zofran for nausea, haldol for agitation, fentanyl and pretty much any narcotic too. Everyone just basically slam in the meds then leave the room then continues on their merry way.

Another thing that I see go on a lot is the running of incompatible meds together. We use micromedex which is an online IV compatibility library and what I've found is that a lot of meds that are supposedly incompatible actually do run together. I was always taught that incompatible meds form a precipitate due to acidity or alkalinity of the meds or fluids. However, I have watched nurses set up y-porting 3 or 4 meds that are supposed to be incompatible and they run just fine. Why is that? I even saw one nurse push dilaudid through a line that had TPN & lipids which I thought was incompatible with everything.

Does anyone else witness or participate in these "bad practices?" What do you think of them? I'm still confused on how the incompatible meds run together, personally. Nonetheless, I avoid it.

When I was doing IV meds I rarely pushed anything for the full amount of time recommended unless it was a cardiac med or chemotherapy. Narcotics I would push over at the very least a minute, but slower in more critically ill patients. As far as lines go I always back primed the saline into the old antibiotic bag, then hung the new antibiotic. If there was a severe incompatibility (chemo, TPN, etc) I started a separate bag with its own clean line. Rarely we would have an MD order that it is OK to hang TPN with something else.

don't think it is so much a compatibility issue, I was taught you simply didn't breach a TPN line for infection control reasons.

We have a hospital policy of meds that are compatible with TPN and lipids. I am almost positive dilaudid is compatible with both.
Specializes in Trauma, Teaching.

Just because someone else doesn't follow the safety guidelines, doesn't give YOU permission to do so.

You won't always see crystallization or precipitates, why risk the vein? Speed pushing does cause side effects, and you just can't take it back when your pt gets really dizzy or nauseated, or short of breath, (saying, gee, that didn't happen last time is no comfort to the person in distress). Sometimes you won't see the side effects immediately: I had a cancer pt with permanent hearing damage from having had Lasix pushed too fast during a treatment in another state.

Even though I had sandwiched a dose of Valium with saline pushes, it still precipitated out once, going into a central line! Talk about clamping the tubing as fast as possible before it actually reached him! solid white in the tubing.

The guidelines are there for a reason.

TPN & lipids which I thought was incompatible with everything.

TPN and lipids are compatible with a LOT of things. Thank goodness because my floor does a LOT of TPN and lipids going into a single lumen PICC with a whole heck of a lot of meds. If I stopped TPN and lipids every single time I gave an antibiotic or the million other things, they'd only get about 4 hours worth a day of TPN and lipids.

Also double check on compatibilities now and then. A lot of things are considered "incompatible" by some staff because in the past there wasn't any evidence either way or some people just remember wrong or play it safe and never run anything with x,y, or z.

I have found a lot more people play it "too safe" with compatibility than not safe enough.

Pushes on the other hand.... I think a lot more nurses than will admit it think this of giving it over the recommended time:

Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.

I take my time with most pushes (especially with BP meds, Lopressor, Lasix, etc.--although the Lasix is for a different reason, but I digress), but I almost never actually watch the clock.

As for the TPN--I was told never to push/PB meds into it. Obviously we don't really see it in the ER, but in previous jobs I saw it fairly frequently. TPN had to have a dedicated port and those patients always had at least one other lumen…I guess we were just luck like that. :)

Specializes in Critical Care.

...Even though I had sandwiched a dose of Valium with saline pushes, it still precipitated out once, going into a central line! Talk about clamping the tubing as fast as possible before it actually reached him! solid white in the tubing.

The guidelines are there for a reason.

At everywhere I've worked the policy is to just inject the diazepam even if it mixes with other fluids in the line and precipitates (turns white), since it resuspends completely and immediately when it mixes with even a small amount of plasma.

Other than giving it IM I've never actually figured out how it would be given IV without touching any other IV fluid (the only thing it doesn't precipitate in are things like polyethylene glycol).

Specializes in ICU, ED.

Running incompatible fluids together is definitely unacceptable. We also use micromedex, so I always check that, or I call pharmacy. If for some reason I'm still unsure, I have no problem setting up another line and channel. Better to be safe than sorry!

On the IV push thing, however…..I have NEVER seen a nurse push dilaudid / other pain meds over a specific recommended time. However, they definitely aren't slamming it in (unless it's adenosine, of course). I sure as heck do not stand there and push dilaudid, fentanyl, etc over 2 or 3 minutes, but I do push it relatively slowly. Especially in patients who are already hemodynamically unstable….I don't want to drop their pressures.

Obviously there are some drugs that need to be pushed over a recommended time, or should at least be worth spending time at the bedside pushing. Lasix (obvs), BP/cardiac meds, benadryl, protonix are the main drugs we give on my unit that comes to mind.

Specializes in Med Surg, Home Health.

A very experienced ED nurse told me that if IV metoprolol is pushed too fast, it can "bottom out" a patient's pressures, making them ineligible to get other meds they might really need for heart rate irregularities/MI.

In the ICU, maybe this would translate to unnecessary pressor boluses?

Trust another nurse with your life, but not your license. I don't follow the herd. I still push drugs slow, and I don't hang things that are incompatible. Call me old fashioned. I won't care, safety first. Since there are probably no studies out there with purposeful incompatible drugs hung together, I am betting that it may not be obvious that the drugs are ineffective. Be the nurse you want to be.

Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.
A very experienced ED nurse told me that if IV metoprolol is pushed too fast, it can "bottom out" a patient's pressures, making them ineligible to get other meds they might really need for heart rate irregularities/MI.

I would be more worried about bottoming out their heart rate.

At everywhere I've worked the policy is to just inject the diazepam even if it mixes with other fluids in the line and precipitates (turns white), since it resuspends completely and immediately when it mixes with even a small amount of plasma.

Other than giving it IM I've never actually figured out how it would be given IV without touching any other IV fluid (the only thing it doesn't precipitate in are things like polyethylene glycol).

You would need to inject it directly into the vein, which is not done anywhere as far as I know. Just had this discussion at work the other day. Diazepam burns, if you dilute it in a flush patients complain less and you can push it slower. Some say don't dilute because of precipitate but if you think about it logically injecting it into a j-loop full of saline is diluting it, flushing it with saline is too. The same precipitate will form unless you use a straight needle and inject the diazepam into the vein. Talked to pharmacy about it too and they agree. They even posted an announcement on the bulletin board saying the precipitate is not dangerous and that the diazepam will work just the same for the reasons you posted above.

Specializes in Intensive care, ER.

I always always check compatibilities, especially if I come on to many lines y-ed in together. Recently my hospital has adopted a policy to reuse secondary tubing for compatible iv antibiotics and I've heard only a few nurses complain about having the time to check compatibilites. We use trissel's so I'm able to put all of my meds and solutions in at once, just to be sure.

As for pushing drugs fast, I don't always push over 2+ minutes, unless we are talking bp/hr meds, or opiates. There are few things I remember verbatum from nursing clinicals but one is pushing lasix too fast will cause hearing damage and I always think about that when I push lasix or bumex.

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