Signing new grad contract?

jeepgirl, LPN, NP · Aug 15, 2004

To quote some wise people who beat me to it- RUN.
Look at it this way- if you presented the hospital with a contract that said if they don't honor the verbal agreement they made with you about scheduling they will have to pay you $11K, would they sign it? No. And that is an agreement they KNEW about. Why should you sign a contract that was never discussed with you?
Look over any paperwork that you received and signed, especially your job offer letter. See if it is mentioned anywhere. They can't spring this on you after the fact and expect you to accept it. I would be tempted to say to them "Do you want people stupid enough to sign this caring for patients at this hospital?"
I wrote a paper in nursing school- OMG was it 10 years ago?- and remember that the cost of orienting a new nurse then was $10K. I'm surprised they only expect to invest $11K now. The other point I remember from that paper was that new grads on average only stay in their first job for 9 months. I can see why they are looking to keep staff longer, but this is ridiculous.
If they are trying to force you to stay in a job for 18 months under threat of repaying $11K, you probably don't want to work there. I would refuse to sign it and see if they force the issue.

i agree... but i hope that her staying doesn't imply that she agreed to the contract.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Aug 15, 2004

Run Forest Run!!!!!!!

ratchit · Aug 16, 2004

i agree... but i hope that her staying doesn't imply that she agreed to the contract.

That's a great point. I think it would all depend on the wording and her response to it. Just ignoring the letter that "requests" her to sign the contract might be perceived as tacit agreement. I suspect the hospital would have a hard time getting anything out of her in court if they gave her a job offer letter and let her start working before mentioning the contract, but who wants this mess to get to court?

I think in her position, I would send the contract back by return receipt mail, unsigned with a "Never discussed with me and I do not consent" comment written on it.

Either way, she'll likely be looking for a new job soon. :) If the place needs to threaten people to keep them working there, she'll want to leave. If they refuse to accept her refusing to sign that piece of nonsense, she'll be out the door.

EvelynRN-BSN · Aug 20, 2004

I would not sign that contract without consulting the person that hired your first. And still I probably would not sign. I just started a hospital and there is no contract for me to sign saying that I have to pay back orientation fees if I decided not to work there. I would understand paying back the sign-on-bonus if less than one year,but that is it. You should not have to pay back the orientation fee. What if...after orientation...you started working on the unit and you hated it. And let's say the staff were horrible...should you have to feel like you have to stay or else you have to pay back the orientation fee. I don't think so. You need to talk with someone about that. I have never heard of a contract about paying back orientation fees that you don't even pay for in the first place. The hospital pays for all new grads to go through orientation. What if you did'nt have that kind of money to pay it back. That just left bad taste in my mouth.

Good Luck with this one.

Evelyn

Asterias Aureus · Aug 26, 2004

Amazing. I can't believe they actually get people to sign these contracts. This must be an incredible hole to work in if they have to resort to this.

Hi Everyone...

I was browsing and found this thread. I just graduated in May and am working in a hospital where new graduates are required to sign a contract staying that they will stay at the hospital for a year after completing graduation. If the new grad does not, then he or she will have to pay the hospital for the cost of orienting and teaching. I am not sure of the exact cost (it is somewhere in my contract which I have filed away!) but I do know that the amount varies depending on the amount of time the new nurse has spent at the hospital. For example, if the cost to educate a new graduate is $1,200 (just to make calculations easier) and the new graduate has worked at the hospital for ten months when he or she decides to leave, then the nurse would owe the hospital $200. So it is not a completely unfair situation. Also, if a nurse (new or otherwise) is unhappy working in a certain unit, the nurse recruiter and human resources does everything they can to put the nurse onto a unit where he or she will be happy--they don't want to lose staff.

My hospital is by no means a "hole", and I am very happy to be working there. I even turned down a position at a major university medical center to work there. Besides, I want to build my resume by working at one place for a long time. I plan on working there until I graduate with my Master's Degree. It is only a year that they expect me to stay...less of a (time) commitment than most nursing programs!

Just wanted to share my point of view....

Maureen

Altra, BSN, RN · Aug 27, 2004

I just graduated in May and am working in a hospital where new graduates are required to sign a contract staying that they will stay at the hospital for a year after completing graduation. If the new grad does not, then he or she will have to pay the hospital for the cost of orienting and teaching. I am not sure of the exact cost (it is somewhere in my contract which I have filed away!) but I do know that the amount varies depending on the amount of time the new nurse has spent at the hospital. :

Let's hope you don't have reason to dig that contract out of the file to find out the cost ...

I still think it's completely unreasonable. Human beings are not 90 days same as cash, and they don't come with money-back guarantees. I'd have to wonder about working for an employer who has so precisely calculated my worth for 12 months ...

Silicone · Aug 27, 2004

Maureen,

I really wish you well and hope this works out for you.

But if it was me, I would have gone over that contract with

a fine-toothed comb and probably had a lawyer take a look

at it. My s-i-l is a lawyer specializing in employee contracts

law and says that these types of contracts are one-sided -

set up to benefit the employer. You can bet there is nothing

in that contract that protects your interests unless you

negotiated to have it put in there. She says these type of

contracts are becoming popular with places that have

trouble retaining employees and is starting to be used as a

tool to "manage" people. Not the kind of management I'd

want to work under.

Again, I do wish you well.

Samantha

Asterias Aureus · Aug 29, 2004

I realize that working in a place where a new grad has to stay for an entire year doesn't work for everyone, but I just wanted to bring a different point of view to this thread. The hospital I work at is expanding, perhaps that is why the contract is in place. I don't feel like I am being taken advantage of at all. I really enjoy where I work, and if they feel the need to have me sign a contract, hey, that's fine with me. I didn't make this decision on a whim. I really thought it through. I am not defending my career path to anyone, but wanted to offer my opinion as someone who actually works at a hospital where a "new grad contract" is in place. Are there others out there who have been in this position and had a bad experience? I didn't notice any posts on this thread saying that they did. I don't know of anyone in my hospital who has had an issue with a contract or had to leave early. My orientation is a year long program in an ICU, including extra classes that other hospitals might require the employee to foot the bill. Many hospitals don't even let new grads near an ICU. In exchange for all of this learning experience at no cost to myself except for a year working there, sounds great to me.

Again, I just wanted to share my point of view with someone who was (still is?) considering working in a hospital where he or she would be obligated to maintain employment for a year. I realize that my point of view is not popular, based on the amounts of posts that encouraged kurlykay to run from this hospital as fast as kurlykay could, but I figured it was fair to give my point of view. Also, in one post it said "Look over any paperwork that you received and signed, especially your job offer letter. See if it is mentioned anywhere. They can't spring this on you after the fact and expect you to accept it. I would be tempted to say to them 'Do you want people stupid enough to sign this caring for patients at this hospital?'" I really hope I am taking this out of context, because I am slightly offended that I would be called stupid! (Especially by someone who doesn't even know me!)

So basically to those out there considering employment with a facility that requires a contract, just be sure you can see yourself staying for a year. If you can (maybe even picture yourself staying for many years!) then go for it. If you are unable to make the commitment then don't do it.

Maureen

SandraCVRN · Sep 11, 2004

My orientation is a year long program in an ICU, including extra classes that other hospitals might require the employee to foot the bill. Many hospitals don't even let new grads near an ICU. In exchange for all of this learning experience at no cost to myself except for a year working there, sounds great to me.
Maureen

Maureen, the way I read the OP, it was a completly different situation than yours. A basic new grad hospital orientation and floor orientation, probably around 2 months. I wouldn't have a problem with some type of repayment for a specialized orientation that is going to take a year (or even close to it). I don't think your stupid :)

Asterias Aureus · Sep 11, 2004

Hi Sandra...

Thanks for the reassurance! I know sometimes it is hard to tell the tone people intend over the computer, so maybe I was being extra sensitive to some of the posts--especially since this is a new career for me and sometimes I even doubt myself. The doubts are more about abilities than contracts, but the encouragement is still nice!

Maureen

ratchit · Sep 14, 2004

Maureen,

The post with the "do you want someone stupid enough to sign this taking care of your patients" comment was mine and I stand by it. I do think you took it a bit out of context.

If you were told when you applied or interviewed for the job that you would need to sign such a contract, then I would still be concerned. To experienced nurses, that sends up big red flags about what the hospital thinks of it's nurses. A lot of new grads must be bailing out of that hospital if they went to the effort of putting a contract together. But if they told you about it then they were honest with you and you were able to make an informed decision to proceed. Not a decision I would make, but that doesn't mean it's stupid.

But if I understood the original poster correctly, she applied, interviewed, was offered, and accepted the job without there being any mention of this contract. If I recall correctly, the first time she heard about the contract was when she got it in the mail after she had started the job. Surprise!

In that scenario, yes, I would have to wonder about the intelligence of anyone who signed that contract. A hospital that has to be so sneaky about it is likely to be very difficult to work at- both on the units and for a company that has to play such tricks to get nurses to stay for a year.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. They sent her a contract with an $11K penalty on it without ever discussing it with her. I think anyone who starts working for a company that would do that should expect to be treated badly thereafter.

kurlykay · Sep 15, 2004

Hi everyone,

Thanks to all who responded to my post. I just wanted to update you all on what happened with the contract. 5 days after I received the contract, I went in and talked with the Human Resources department. I told them I was extremely disappointed that the contract was never mentioned before I took and started the job. I also basically told him I didn't like the contract because there was nothing in it that protects me (I had a lawyer look over it) and I wasn't signing it. I gave them the option of rewriting the contract and putting in all of the things they promised me and told them I would look over it and then make a decision (although I mentioned I still probably wouldn't sign it). The HR guy just said okay don't sign it. I've been working there for over a month now, I never signed the contract, and it's never been mentioned again. Couldn't have been a better turn out! I agree with most of you who posted. It's suspicious when they ask you to sign a contract after your hired and it makes me wonder if this hospital has problems keeping nurses. So far everything has been really good, but I feel much better knowing I'm not under the threat of a contract if things get bad. Thanks for all your help.

Karen