Sick and tired of the AAS BSN debate

[Natingale]

SO

I am a new RN, graduated from one of the toughest nursing programs in the country.

I was lucky enough to land a job in this economy, even better in the department that I love the most!

Life is great, seriously..What could go wrong?!

Its another day in nursing orientation, a handful of us new nurses listening to lectures, performing skills, participating in work shops. FUN!

One day, for the head to toe assessment, a nursing instructor from a private school sits in with her clinical group to listen to the head to toe lecture.

She starts off by saying..

Congratulations you all have jobs!!!

Its because you all have your bachelors... be sure to tell that to all your friends who have their associates.

I was the only one in the group with an associates in nursing.

So I said, I have an associates, and last I checked I have a job.

I SOOOOOOOOO wanted to go on.

I wanted to ask her, with a genuinely dumb look on my face..

The nurses with their bachelors, do they take a different board exam from those associate nurses?

Wait for a response, then come back with EXACTLYYYYY!

I felt about 2 inches tall, but whatever. The school I went to had 1500 applicants, and I was the lucky person to be included in the 150 to get accepted ...of those 150, i was the lucky 70 to graduate on time (we had 90 something at pinning but we had about a dozen of LPNs and the rest were students who had to repeat a course)

Needless to say, I felt small. Was unable to concentrate, but I reminded myself of the little things..and began to feel better.

No student loans to pay back!! So my first paycheck, Im going to blow it and go shopping!!!

I am only making a whopping...drum roll please...50 cents less per hour than those with a higher degree.

I saved a ton of money by taking the NCLEX once and passing it on the first try, with 75 questions baby!

I am going back for my bachelors, my masters even (i would love to have that clinical instructor work for me one day) this time the place I work for is going to reimburse me for my tuition.

This post is not an invitation to flame and debate some more on why one is "better" than the other

This was an opportunity to share my experience, hopefully lift the spirits of someone who had a similar story.

se la vie

[PMFB-RN, RN]

ok, i lied - i don't believe you. :)

*** here is a link to the nursing program requirements at the school i went to:

http://www.swtc.edu/gray_map.aspx?id=105431

as you can see the program is set up to be done in two years in four semesters without taking classes in summer. you will also see there are no pre-req's.

i went from not a single college credit, but military experience and training, to rn in 9 months with a month off over christmas / new years.

here is how. the state of california allows military corpsmen to challenge lvn boards. my buddy and i studied hard and as soon as we got out of the army we challenged and passed the lvn boards. then i came here to wisconsin and enrolled in the lpn to rn program at the above school. at that time there was no waiting list for it. all of the ge classes i needed like english, chem, developmental psychology, sociology, etc i took clep exams for. this allowed me to enter into the second year of the rn program and take two semesters with 16 credits each semester. actually my buddy and i did it together. while in the army we did considerable checking and research to discover this path to rn. the lpn to rn program cost us $3800 but of course the gi bill paid for it and then some.

after nursing school i got a job in a large teaching hospital / trauma center sicu. they had a 9 month nurse residency program for new grads to go directly into the icu. they also paid for us to get our bsns, which we did in two years. so in three years we had rn, bsn, no debt, and two solid years of icu experience. of course it would be fair to count the 4 years we spent in the army, but of course we were paid for that time and would have done it even if nursing school wasn't in our plans. at the time i joined the army being an rn never occured to me.

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

my point is that if you DO have a degree already, it is NOT faster to get an AS than it is to get a BS due to the fact that the nursing courses build upon each other.

It depends on your previous degree. My first degree is in Biology.

I finished my ADN prereqs in one and a half part time semesters (the half semester was over the summer). I don't have to take a whole gamut of mathematics courses because I completed through college level calculus and physics with my first degree and transferred in the credits. It more than covers my college algebra requirement. I had also already taken general bio, Ochem, physical chem, English and others. Just had everything I could transferred in and applied toward my ADN.

I had no waiting list to contend with for entrance into the program either and was accepted the first time I applied.

The whole process from prereqs to graduation will take 2.5 years and save me thousands of dollars besides. The accelerated BSN program is an hour's drive one way from my home community and it costs twice as much to attend when you include all the crazy fees they expect, parking, fuel, etc.

As a second degree student with very real financial and familial responsibilities, I have to be very prudent about what my education cost/completion time to income/debt ratio is and in my cost-benefit analysis of my specific set of circumstances, a BSN program is not prudent.

[backatit2]

*** here is a link to the nursing program requirements at the school i went to:

http://www.swtc.edu/gray_map.aspx?id=105431

as you can see the program is set up to be done in two years in four semesters without taking classes in summer. you will also see there are no pre-req's.

i went from not a single college credit, but military experience and training, to rn in 9 months with a month off over christmas / new years.

here is how. the state of california allows military corpsmen to challenge lvn boards. my buddy and i studied hard and as soon as we got out of the army we challenged and passed the lvn boards. then i came here to wisconsin and enrolled in the lpn to rn program at the above school. at that time there was no waiting list for it. all of the ge classes i needed like english, chem, developmental psychology, sociology, etc i took clep exams for. this allowed me to enter into the second year of the rn program and take two semesters with 16 credits each semester. actually my buddy and i did it together. while in the army we did considerable checking and research to discover this path to rn. the lpn to rn program cost us $3800 but of course the gi bill paid for it and then some.

after nursing school i got a job in a large teaching hospital / trauma center sicu. they had a 9 month nurse residency program for new grads to go directly into the icu. they also paid for us to get our bsns, which we did in two years. so in three years we had rn, bsn, no debt, and two solid years of icu experience. of course it would be fair to count the 4 years we spent in the army, but of course we were paid for that time and would have done it even if nursing school wasn't in our plans. at the time i joined the army being an rn never occured to me.

that's a unique situation specific to the military - not at all the typical route we're talking about. typically, in the civilian world - it takes 3.5 - 4 years to be a rn whatever path you take.

oh yeah and that program you did was lpn to rn - we're talking going from nothing, nada to rn. that makes a diff. also....big difference.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

that's a unique situation specific to the military - not at all the typical route we're talking about. typically, in the civilian world - it takes 3.5 - 4 years to be a RN whatever path you take.

oh yeah and that program you did was LPN to RN - we're talking going from nothing, nada to RN. that makes a diff. also....big difference.

*** Well I didn't claim it was a typical path. I only told about it cause you said you don't believe me. It Does NOT take 3-4 years to become an RN. It can, and is, done in two years by lot's and lot's of people all the time. Just becuase you chose to only look into programs with extended completion times doesn't mean they aren't out there. All 16 Wisconsin Technical colleges have ADN programs that can be done in two years, though some of them have long wait lists, but some don't and lot's of people are on the wait list while in high school and so can start their ADN programs as soon as they graduate. As you might expect since I live and work in Wisconsin many of the nurses I work with are graduates of the Technical College system. I know them, work with them, and lots of them are my friends.

I certainly think that anyone who goes to an ADN program full time for 3+ years and graduates with only and ADN is being taken advantage of by their school. It doesn't seem very fair at all. If that is the case for people who must attend such a school then it makes sence to me to just go for the BSN.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

oh yeah and that program you did was LPN to RN - we're talking going from nothing, nada to RN. that makes a diff. also....big difference.

,

*** I went from nothing, nada, no college credit, to RN in a little less than a year. I am not saying a lot of people can or should do it but it IS an example.

[HeartsOpenWide, RN]

There's a term for what you're doing. It's called trolling.

I'm done here.

[TheLastTime]

Experienced nurses won't have an employment problem regardless of their degree status. While most of the descriptions state "BSN preferred", good non-BSNers won't be passed up.

New nurses are having quite another story in my area. All of the hospitals are gunning for magnet status and are picking BSNs first for new hires. The two year degree candidates get consideration after the employable BSN candidates have been picked through. This has been divulged to me by nursing managers and recruiters. Most of the new two year grads that I know are having a bad time even getting interviews, much less jobs. While an improving economy may alleviate this somewhat, as long as magnet status dictates a preference towards BSNs the hospitals will follow in lockstep.

I have a BSN but now also find myself on the wrong end in terms of the bar being raised. I want to go on to an advanced degree; however, a lot of the Masters programs are being replaced by Doctorates which raises the time and money investment. Again, Masters holders with experience will not have a problem. Freshly minted Masters will have to wait in line behind those with Doctorates...if a Masters can still be procured at all.

[iteachob, MSN, RN]

Looking through this thread....I'm sure most will be very surprised (shocked?) to learn that 2 year (start to finish) ADN programs DO indeed exist. I teach in one. A student in our program can (and some do....although admittedly not most) finish in 2 years, straight out of High School. NO course pre-reqs for acceptance to the program. We DO require competitive ACT, and HS GPA (competitive college GPA of previous science courses will give an edge to admission).

Even more amazing....ALL of our graduates from last May are working as RN's. It's all about location.

[Moogie]

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[HeartsOpenWide, RN]

How do you put some one on "ignore"?

[linearthinker, DNP, RN]

Originally Posted by DonaldJ

Listen. Finish a nursing program, any nursing program, and we'll talk about how much you really know about nursing education. As it stands, you're just running off at the mouth with nothing to back your opinions up other than your individual experience with the requirements of one local community college's ADN program.

Those that make valid, informed points against your empty opinions are "grasping at straws", as you like to say over and over.

There's a term for what you're doing. It's called trolling.

I'm done here.

After reading this persons other posts, I agree. She is only here to argue about things she doesn't even understand. You guys are beating your head against a dead horse. ;-)

[FA2Nurse]

why would anyone get an associate's degree?

i have a bs (not in nursing) and when i checked into what would be the fastest way to be a rn considering i already spent 4 years in school - i found out getting an associate's or a bsn will take the same amount of time.

the core classes take 2 years and the nursing classes take 2 years. since i have the cores, i'll have to do the 2 years of nursing courses, but it would be 2 years if i chose to go to comm. college and get an associate's or 2 years at the university getting a bachelor's - so why not get a bachelor's?

actually, i'm applying for the accelerated 18 month program, but that just proves the point even more - for someone with a 4 year degree, 18 months is the fastest track.

you clearly have a one track mind.

i have a ba and a masters, but i went with the adn because it's cheaper and faster. the key here is i paid out of pocket.

there was no way in hell i was going back into debt for nursing after already going to a high level division i school. and i have a lifestyle i wasn't ready to give up. yep. i said it. finish nursing school for

but at the end of the day - who gives a crap. after i pass the nclex, i'm an rn. (i just graduated) now i'm just an rn with more degrees lol

and i'd like to add, that i finished it in 2 years taking my pre-reqs (2 at a time while working full-time as an administrator).

so. in the end. to make a sweeping generalization makes you completely wrong.

and you know what, my wonderful administrator job is waiting for me to return to it. :)