Should students be penalized due to Instructors Mistake ?

[NurseLoveJoy88]

Yesterday students just found out that something was mis-keyed in the our first exam ( 6 weeks ago) so therefore some of us either lost or gained 1 point, and some people did not have any change. I was one of the lucky ones that gained 1 point so going from a 81 to 82 was no big deal to me. However, there are some that lost a point and was hanging on the borderline of failing with 1 pt making the difference. I personally feel that students should not have points deducted due to the instructor mis- keying the scan tron. I feel for those who thought they passed that exam and didn't. In nursing school 1 point can make a difference and I've seen students fail for that 1pt or less.

The other problem is that we are taking our final today and they are just now letting us know about this even after grades have been posted 6 weeks ago. What do you all think? Should students have point(s) subtracted even if its as a result of the instructor making an error?

Some of my classmates are outraged.

[AOx1]

In response to the quote "It is not the students' fault, the instructor needs to take responsibility. It does not matter how many questions they missed over the weeks, they deserve to pass by that one point! I would sue the hell out of that school for that blunder..."

So, even if a student was failing his or her other exams, it is still the instructor's fault that they don't pass by a point? I didn't realize it was suddenly my responsibility to pass every student, no matter how poorly they might perform. I thought my responsibility was to provide the best educational climate to help my students learn how to learn, to grow in their skills, and to turn out SAFE graduates that are prepared to practice. It is interesting to me how many hours I put in every week to do just this, yet if some of my students put in the same amount of time (70+ hours most weeks), they would not be in danger of failing. I often hear students talk about how much fun they had at the bar, how good the new Twilight series is, how much they enjoy relaxing and watching TV....and then ranting about how "student X" is a total nerd and never goes out and how they can't imagine how he/she gets all those As.....

Every semester, I have a few student in danger of failing. I email them, send them to the retention program, ask them to come in an review their exams, etc. Yet out of those who you ask to come in, rarely does anyone show up for the extra help. Of course, when they fail, this is my fault too!

Hint: instead of an entitlement attitude towards the extra point, students might be better served in seeking out the instructor for tips on success, not in trying to sue him or her. If I sued everyone who ever made a mistake, I would be a rich woman indeed! I hope you don't run into any patients with this attitude as a practicing nurse.

It's interesting how many times the first thing you see in response to an instructor's mistake is "sue them!" and "how unfair and horrible instructors are" yet if I held the same standard up for my students, trying to destroy them for every mistake, nobody would ever graduate. It isn't fair for instructors to do this to students, and it isn't fair for students to engage in this behavior either. The street runs both ways. You can't complain about how awful it is that some instructors and practicing nurses engage in horizontal violence, and the come on a forum and perpetrate the same offense you are complaining about. We ALL need to contribute to a climate in which mistakes are reported and corrected vs. a "blame culture."

[Acosmo27]

Wow. I couldn't agree more.

Wait, what? I misread the OP as well. Sooo, the students who lost the point, still lost the point? The scores are accurate?

Are you freaking kidding me? These students are whining about not getting a free point? Puhleese...

I misread the original post as well... the scenario the OP is depicting is completely justified.. and FAIR.

[Music in My Heart]

In response to the quote "It is not the students' fault, the instructor needs to take responsibility. It does not matter how many questions they missed over the weeks, they deserve to pass by that one point! I would sue the hell out of that school for that blunder..."

So, even if a student was failing his or her other exams, it is still the instructor's fault that they don't pass by a point? I didn't realize it was suddenly my responsibility to pass every student, no matter how poorly they might perform. I thought my responsibility was to provide the best educational climate to help my students learn how to learn, to grow in their skills, and to turn out SAFE graduates that are prepared to practice. It is interesting to me how many hours I put in every week to do just this, yet if some of my students put in the same amount of time (70+ hours most weeks), they would not be in danger of failing. I often hear students talk about how much fun they had at the bar, how good the new Twilight series is, how much they enjoy relaxing and watching TV....and then ranting about how "student X" is a total nerd and never goes out and how they can't imagine how he/she gets all those As.....

Every semester, I have a few student in danger of failing. I email them, send them to the retention program, ask them to come in an review their exams, etc. Yet out of those who you ask to come in, rarely does anyone show up for the extra help. Of course, when they fail, this is my fault too!

Hint: instead of an entitlement attitude towards the extra point, students might be better served in seeking out the instructor for tips on success, not in trying to sue him or her. If I sued everyone who ever made a mistake, I would be a rich woman indeed! I hope you don't run into any patients with this attitude as a practicing nurse.

It's interesting how many times the first thing you see in response to an instructor's mistake is "sue them!" and "how unfair and horrible instructors are" yet if I held the same standard up for my students, trying to destroy them for every mistake, nobody would ever graduate. It isn't fair for instructors to do this to students, and it isn't fair for students to engage in this behavior either. The street runs both ways. You can't complain about how awful it is that some instructors and practicing nurses engage in horizontal violence, and the come on a forum and perpetrate the same offense you are complaining about. We ALL need to contribute to a climate in which mistakes are reported and corrected vs. a "blame culture."

Geez, I'm tempted to sign up for 3 or 4 disposable accounts just to add more kudos.

I am sick and tired of the blame game... And over not getting a free point, no less.

If one of my classmates moaned to me about something like this I would laugh in their face. Not just giggle or chuckle, but a big, belly-laugh guffaw.

[JeanettePNP, MSN, RN, NP]

Although I don't think the instructor is unfairly taking a point away from anyone, if I were the instructor in this situation I'd just leave it alone. It's one point, it was 6 weeks ago, there's really no point in going back and trying to fix it if nobody realized until now.

I guess you don't get to go over the questions after exams. Except for the departmental, our instructors always went over tests with us afterwards or at the very least we had the opportunity to find out which ones we missed and why.

[cursedandblessed]

devil's advocate here, six weeks and the day before the final is a bit late to be changing the grades. especially with the withdrawal date long past. my school is a cc and goes by most of the college policies with a few differences for nursing students. we have a withdrawal date that if you withdraw by no letter grade or gpa points are given or taken away. by failing to correct the tests in a timely manner this could effect someone negatively should they decide in the future to choose another career path or attempt to re-enter nursing. there i go looking at the big picture and thinking about helping others again, lol.

for the record i would have dropped out long ago if i was that close to failing, which when it comes to final grades the one point on a test would amount to probably 0.20 of the final grade.

[AOx1]

It is also possible that the mistake was just discovered. For example, if a student questioned why the answer they had chosen was incorrect, the instructor may have reviewed the exam, noticed that there was a miss-key, and corrected the mistake. This is why it is best to use applications such as parscore, to analyze each test item to determine which test items should be thrown out. Additionally, there may be other information you don't know. For example, in some schools, when an error comes to light, it will be voted on during a committee meeting either by all faculty or all faculty for that teaching level (ex- senior, junior), and these committees don't always meet weekly. As the instructor, I personally would discuss the rationale for the actions with my students.

[Lin88]

Sure, 6 wks later you're finding out. But I say it's better to find out NOW rather than once it's all said and done and there's no points to be given.

[83studentnurse]

Students are NOT being penalized for the instructor's mistake. Students are getting the grades they actually earned.

I understand that it's frustrating to find this out right before the final. However, not only is 1 point probably never going to make the difference between passing and failing the course, but it's not as though someone who scored a 82 on the test and now found out she had an 81 would've studied any harder for the final based on that one point difference.

I definitely feel for anyone who works hard at school and still struggles. However, I think this issue is pretty clear. Previously, the test WASN'T fair (penalizing those who got the question right). Now the test IS FAIR (penalizing no one). The school could have decided to let those who originally missed the question keep the bonus point (due to the lapse in time correcting the error), but that would've just been a gift, not an obligation.

[Sarah Hay]

Your classmates are upset about one incident? You'd hate my program. That occured on EVERY SINGLE EXAM in my Med-Surg I class. The biggest loss we had was around 12 points on one of our exams.

[shantyblue]

I have seen students failed for less than one point.

One very effective way of handling this problem is for the class as a whole to follow the "chain of command" with their concerns. Meet as a whole, discuss the situation, write down your key points, appoint a speaker (or speakers) for the group, devise your plan of action. Also, if there is something that you want changed, be prepared to offer a solution to the problem. Now, meet with the instructor who made the mistake, if the action (or no action) is not satisfactory, go to her/his department head, and so forth. Take it as high as the dean of the university if needed. Remain calm and professional in your approach to solving the problem.

(If you have already approached the instructor and department head, etc...revisit as the collective group.)

I have seen this work, very effectively. In the instance that I am speaking of it was perceived as a concern for the entire future of the nursing program rather than it being only one or a few "disgruntled" students.

I do completely understand your frustration with this situation, even though you are not directly affected. It does reflect on your entire experience of nursing school and tends to lessen what is a major, life changing experience. I wish you much luck with this endeavor and much enjoyment from your nursing career.

[83studentnurse]

How many exams do you have per semester and how are they weighted? In our school, we have 5 exams -- each worth 15% -- and a comprehensive final worth 25%. For us, each question on a unit exam is worth 0.15% of the final grade. So, one question would only be the difference between, say, 80 and 80.15 (which rounds to 80%) or an 98.5 and 98.70 (both round to 99%). I write that only to show that it's extremely unlikely that one question will be the difference between passing or failing the course.

I don't know about other schools, but I know that at my school, trying to argue this would never fly. The students grades were corrected so they are now accurate and my school would see no injustice is giving someone the grade they earned.

I'm glad it's not affecting you, and I'm sure it'll work out OK!

[K.P.A.]

It's much easier to study and have a cushion than it is to fight the system.