Should RNs be Required to Have A BSN?

actioncat · Dec 1, 2004

I don't particularly care if I work with a nurse with an ADN, a BSN, or a diploma. I judge the nurse on the care they provide.

I have a BSN and don't feel that I have ever judged anyone by their degree status. I have heard more than a few times from ADN nurses how they have "so much more clinical" experience. this gets tiresome as it just ain't true. By the time I graduated I had three years of clinical experience. No, our extra classes were not simply "mangement" or literature classes. We had more clinical experience than the ADN program. I noticed a poster on the board who spoke about how wonderful their ADN program was in comparison to the BSN programs in the area. Well, I have worked with some of these nurses and they were no more clinical savvy as new nurses than I was. And that is fine, but understand that BSN nurses can be just as good at bedside care as ADN and diploma nurses.

At any rate, I do feel there is value to taking non nursing related classes. They can help you to practice writing skills and fine hone your critical thinking skills.

There are more components to a nurse's competence than her schooling. these include experience, willingness to learn new things, willingness to admit mistakes and learn from them, and desire to do what is right rather than what is most expedient (among other things.

I don't think a BSN as an entry level requirement is a good idea, however. We simply do not have the faculty, the programs, or the ability at this time to absorb such a nursing shortage that would be created from such a requirement.

rach_nc_03 · Dec 5, 2004

I'll graduate with my ADN in North Carolina in May 2005. If I had to go to UNC for my BSN (or any other state-school BSN program), it would've cost $9,000 and taken 3-4 years (I attended UNC for 4.5 years as a liberal arts major, so the vast majority of my classes wouldn't be needed in the BSN program)- I'm almost 33 years old, ready to start having kids soon, and I don't have that kind of money OR time. Instead, I'll be getting my NLN-approved ADN for free, since, as a displaced worker in NC, the employment security commission pays all of my expenses for my 2-year degree. my instructors have all been staff members and/or faculty at Duke and UNC, and most of my clinicals take place at UNC Hospitals. I'm bright, dedicated, and industrious, and I think I'll make a great nurse- and I will be forever grateful for having the opportunity to start my third career in nursing *because* the ADN programs for entry to practice as an RN exist.

Incidentally, I plan to do an RN-to-MSN program once my fiancee finishes his overseas military tour...so I'll pick up that BSN along the way. I just think making the transition in requirements right now would make a bad shortage even worse. My program has around 350 applicants for 30 spots each year, and attrition brings us down to 15-20. It's hard enough to get a spot in an ADN program- most have 1-3 year wait lists. I can't imagine what would happen if those people had to try to get into a handful of BSN programs. And, of the 17 or so people graduating from my program, I don't think a single one could afford a BSN program- and the state money for many educational grants won't cover 4-year degrees, since unemployment levels are staying high, and funds go to getting people back into the workforce as quickly as possible.

idealistically, sure- more education is a great thing. more clinical hours would be even better- my understanding is that BSN students in NC don't get any more clinical hours than we do in ADN programs (where we get on the floor during our first week of classes). plus, a lot of new grads I know with BSNs complain that they didn't get the kind of clinical exposure they wanted. Heck- the accelerated BSN seniors from duke that do their internship on the unit where I work know less than i do about pathophysiology AND patient care. I know that's not statistically significant, but my point is that you can get a good education in an ADN program, at least in this state. Especially if you become an active participant in your own education.

r.

Patrick, I got my ADN in North Carolina. I remember Vicky's thread. There was an excellent NLN approved program in Fayetteville, and it was cheap. The nearest BSN was in Chapel Hill which was 2 hours away, a competetive school, and an expensive one compared to school I went to in Fayetteville. There isn't enough access to BSN programs to fit the needs in North Carolina without a significant increase in spending by the state to change th ADN programs to BSN. I would definately compound the shortage if those ADN programs had to shut down.
Same here. In my county of 800,000 people it's only been in the last five years that a BSN program opened up. The nearest was in our sister city next county north with already a long waiting list.
Not an easy understaking to upgrade all ADN programs to BSNs.

Trauma Columnist · Dec 5, 2004

I have a question for the Canadian nurses: what is BScN?? Is it the same as the US BSN? Thanks so much...

lil'nurse · Dec 6, 2004

In our area it is almost impossible to get into any program, ADN or BSN. I myself did the LPN because it had the shortest waiting list. Now I just finished the ADN program much more quickly than I would have d/t advanced placement because I was already an LPN, the waiting lists are HUGE. I've applied for the BSN program only because I'm afraid in a few years, it may make a difference if I "only" have an ADN. I can enter into the Collaboritive Nursing program and take most of my classes on-line. The universities are very competetive and even those with decent GPA's are being denied admission the traditional route.

Fiona59 · Dec 6, 2004

BScN -- Bachelor of Science--Nursing. Four year degree. Just the full title, you get your Bachelors in the Science of Nursing.

trent · Dec 6, 2004

As a student in Ontario, this is my understanding of how they made more BScN spots open up in time for the changeover to BScN only RNs:

Each community college that had a nursing program that wanted to keep it was required to pair up with a university in providing the program. The colleges went about this in one of four ways.

1. Hold the program at only the college but change the courses offered to meet the university requirements. (for this option sometimes the university is not even in the same province as the college)

2. Hold part of the program at the community college as above, and part of the program at the university (ie 2 years at college, then 2 years at university)

3. Hold the program only at the university

4. Hold the program at both the university and the college concurrently (obviously only works if the university and college are in the same town).

Here in Ontario, as far as I know, there are as many spots for students now as there were before the switch.

Claver · Dec 6, 2004

I am a Diploma trained registered nurse. I have Bachelors and Masters degrees in health administration, but I am thinking of going back to school and completing my BSN, as I do believe that in the next few years this will be an important degree to have. I am in my mid fifties, so this is a big step for me. I am interested in an online program. I am looking for feed back from any one who is currently around my age ( even younger) and who are doing this or contemplating of this, and also some good online schools, reasonable in cost.

Trauma Columnist · Dec 6, 2004

Fiona - thanks for the info.

Claver - I did my BSN completion with University of Phoenix. I'm 46.

CCU NRS · Dec 7, 2004

Hey Tweety, Canada did not give Diploma nurses BSNs, they were just exempt from the requirement. The requirement for BSNs is for new nurse registrants only and only in certain provinces since each province has it's own board of nursing just like each state does. Nurses without a BSN can't consider themselves RN, BSNs but they can not be discriminated against for not having the BSN. (They are considered the same as new nurses with the degree).

Here in Australia.................:
No when we converted to all BSN reguirement for registration there was some talk of making non-BSN RN's do a "bridging" course but that fell through. This is one of the reasons though, why our registration requirements are "competency based".

So this has happened in these countries. I would like to know if it affected the treament of the nurses in general?

Are nurse now equals?

Do you recieve fairer wages and benefits?

Does the "Corporate sector" ie administration see you differently since the advent of BSN requirements?

I am very interested to know, please inform me as to these conditions.

fergus51 · Dec 7, 2004

CCUnurse, speaking only for Canada, this is still a very new requirement. It's just come into effect and is only a requirement in certain provinces, so I can't really say what the long term consequences are. We also don't have the same "corporate management" of healthcare that you do in the US. I personally think unionization has a much larger impact on work conditions and wages, but the degree is still a benefit. At least in this round of contract negotiations we won't have to hear "Well, come on, nurses don't even have a degree, why should they get so much money?" like we did the last time.

NP2BE · Jan 10, 2005

This may be off the subject a bit but I think continuing education should be taken more seriously then I have observed. I am finishing school now and they tell us in nursing school "you willbe the ones to pass the newer info to the nurses in the field" We all know that is ridiculuos because no one wants to hear peep from a new nurse and assumes they know nothing, yet when I interact with a lot of nurses, I see things that we are being taught "should no longer be done". I am certainly not going to start telling someone with significant clinical experience how to do their job my first year out as a new nurse, or ever really, noone wants to hear it, unless I happen to be the unit educator. Everyone is not on the same page.