Physicians are paid differently according to their speciality. We know that specialities such as cardiology and neurology can make considerably more than others.
So why do we pay all nurses the same?
Should ICU nurses titrating vasoactive drips, performing conscious sedation for GI procedures, stabilizing traumas, running IABPs, ECMOs, and recovering fresh hearts make more for the amount of autonomy and risk they face?
Then why are you being argumentative and nasty with every person in this thread? You obviously think you deserve to be paid more than other nurses. Your ICU training does no good on a labor & delivery unit; they are specialized and take on responsibilities just like you. The same can be said about nearly every aspect of nursing. If you want to be paid more for your choices you should CHOOSE a different profession.
I am stimulating a healthy debate. How am I being nasty or argumentative? I've been told I'm holding myself up on pedestal, that seems catty to me. I'm simply expressing my opinions.
I am stimulating a healthy debate. How am I being nasty or argumentative? I've been told I'm on holding myself up on pedestal, that seems catty to me. I'm simply expressing my opinions.
This is not a healthy debate, you've already stated you could float and perform on the job responsibilities in another nursing field and implying no extra training is needed. That premise in of itself is asinine.
It goes beyond hard work. Nursing needs to stop focusing on this thing called "hard work". Because all I can imagine is someone whom is physically overworked. More tasks and physical work aren't necessarily reasons for compensation.
ICU nurses have specialized training. ICU nurses can get floated to a medsurg unit and manage. Although they may feel overwhelmed by tasks, after tasks... NOTHING on a medsurg unit is above the level of competency of an ICU nurse.
A medical surgical nurse cannot manage STEMI/CABG/IABP/ECMO/Transplant/Organ donors/CRRT/Impella/LVAD... these things take education, training, and extra liability and SHOULD result in extra pay.
My unit segregates the truly NICU patients (vents, inotropes, complex fluid management, post surgical, etc etc) from the grower-feeders; you can have 1-2 of the former but up to 4 of the latter. I can function on the stepdown side but I'd choose NICU any day, that's just my preferred kind of busy. That said, is the work I'm doing any more important than the work in stepdown, just because I can do it where a stepdown nurse couldn't? Of course not. At the end of the day, all patients need to be cared for, and nurses doing an equivalent amount of work (yes, "hard work") should be compensated equally.
This is not a healthy debate, you've already stated you could float and perform on the job responsibilities in another nursing field and implying no extra training is needed. That premise in of itself is asinine.
Yes. ICU nurses are floated to medsurg units all the time in many hospitals across the country. Never will a floor nurse be floated to ICU.
I also have experience in medical surgical but that's aside my above point.
My unit segregates the truly NICU patients (vents, inotropes, complex fluid management, post surgical, etc etc) from the grower-feeders; you can have 1-2 of the former but up to 4 of the latter. I can function on the stepdown side but I'd choose NICU any day, that's just my preferred kind of busy. That said, is the work I'm doing any more important than the work in stepdown, just because I can do it where a stepdown nurse couldn't? Of course not. At the end of the day, all patients need to be cared for, and nurses doing an equivalent amount of work (yes, "hard work") should be compensated equally.
Thank you for your respectful response :)
No, our ICU work is not more important but does require specialized skills in comparison with medsurg. More skills and more liability. Do you think these are not reasons for higher compensation? Opinions please.
No, our ICU work is not more important but does require specialized skills in comparison with medsurg. More skills and more liability. Do you think these are not reasons for higher compensation? Opinions please.
Sorry, I added this to my original response but clearer to post it here:
If you're extending your role with skills like PICC insertion, taking charge, etc, then that I believe is worth a pay bump. But training so that you can function in the post you were hired for? No.
I don't think nurses should be paid more according to what area they work in. However, I do feel they should be compensated if they decide to continue their knowledge base beyond what is required to meet minimum practice requirements (specialty certifications, ACLS, PALS, etc.). For example, I worked in inpatient oncology. When I received my certification (hospital based) to administer chemo I received a raise. When I became certified for PICC lines, I recieved another raise. When I became nationally certified in oncology (OCN) I received another raise.
I don't think nurses should be paid more according to what area they work in. However, I do feel they should be compensated if they decide to continue their knowledge base beyond what is required to meet minimum practice requirements (specialty certifications, ACLS, PALS, etc.). For example, I worked in inpatient oncology. When I received my certification (hospital based) to administer chemo I received a raise. When I became certified for PICC lines, I recieved another raise. When I became nationally certified in oncology (OCN) I received another raise.
Wow great point! That's a very awesome way to balance the ranks. Demonstrating your increased competency level through board certifications and such and receiving according monetary compensations. That is how my facility functions.
I want to remind everyone that an unpopular opinion is not a vicious or nasty one. I am not personally attacking ANYONE.
Telling every nurse who is not an ICU nurse that their specialization is not comparable to your specialization (implying that the only GOOD nurse is an ICU nurse - and yes that is what you are implying) isn't a personal attack? You have chosen your ICU pedestal, why are you so upset that someone pointed it out? Again, why are you pretending you are neutral in this discussion when you obviously are not? If your bio is accurate, you have 2 years of ICU experience - do you really believe you have that much more specialization than a 20-year veteran of L&D or psych or surgical nursing?
Telling every nurse who is not an ICU nurse that their specialization is not comparable to your specialization (implying that the only GOOD nurse is an ICU nurse - and yes that is what you are implying) isn't a personal attack? You have chosen your ICU pedestal, why are you so upset that someone pointed it out? Again, why are you pretending you are neutral in this discussion when you obviously are not? If your bio is accurate, you have 2 years of ICU experience - do you really believe you have that much more specialization than a 20-year veteran of L&D or psych or surgical nursing?
Looks to me like those are your perceptions. Wish I could help you but your string is the only you can play. Hope you're having a good night there, nurse mkk.
You get "paid" more in ICU by having 1-2 patients instead of 7-8.
I do think nurses with experience in everything (or complicated things) can often negotiate a better pay rate, but it doesn't make sense to me to break it down by specialty. And even "hard" specialties have "easy" days. Would anyone be OK with being paid less on the days when they have a lighter assignment? I wouldn't.
If you believe that two patients "only" is a lighter assignment then you are far removed from the reality of critical care. These two patients require extra time and attention. I cannot articulate in words how extremely time consuming two ICU patients can be.
I'm not saying it's easier to have two ICU patients, I'm saying it's roughly equal to having three to four times more med surg patients. In other words, your trade-off for having more complex patients is to have fewer of them- as opposed to being paid more to take care of them. Hope that clarifies things.
I've never met an ICU nurse who likes to float to med/surg despite the fact that they don't get paid more for working in the ICU.
CardiacDork, MSN, RN
577 Posts
I am stimulating a healthy debate. How am I being nasty or argumentative? I've been told I'm holding myself up on pedestal, that seems catty to me. I'm simply expressing my opinions.