Should I SUE?

WheresMyPen · May 18, 2016

I'm a bit confused. When you Say, "bout of a-fib" can you go more into detail? Was this historical a-fib exacerbated? Did you see it on cardiac monitor or did you detect irregular pulse?

If the patient had known dx of afib but was stable, I don't understand why this situation would get you dismissed? Maybe written up or warned but wow. Definitely fight and stand your ground.

roser13, ASN, RN · May 18, 2016

Sue on what grounds? That you used poor nursing judgment because it was your last day and you wanted to get out quickly?

I really would like to hear the other side of this story - it just doesn't add up. If you were as stellar of a student as you say, I doubt that one instructor could get you thrown out.

pixierose, BSN, RN · May 18, 2016

What is with all the sue-happy people lately? This is the 3rd poster I've seen in a week. And the 3rd poster who doesn't have a case.

You needed to let the nurse know the change in her patient's status immediately, not 20 minutes later. That's "Clinical 101" right there. I'm confused as to why you did this? In fact, I'm confused by the whole situation.

nynursey_ · May 18, 2016

I'm having a difficult time wrapping my head around this situation. You were academically dismissed from your program for ...? Failure to rescue? Failure to notify? Safety violation? Unprofessional conduct?

The first place to start is in reviewing the materials given to you by your clinical instructors/nursing program regarding conduct at clinical. There should be a section addressing dismissal criteria and/or punitive action. If what your situation entails is addressed in the manual and they followed protocol, unfortunately you won't have a leg to stand on. The nursing program, while you pay to attend the college, is voluntary meaning you can withdraw at any time, and you can be dismissed at any time, so long as proper procedure is followed. It's been my experience that many nursing programs function autonomously in the college setting, especially community colleges, and very rarely do TPTB get involved in disagreements between students and instructors unless there truly is some sort of legal situation to be uncovered.

Your best bet is to schedule a meeting with the Dean of Nursing and ascertain WHY you were dismissed. Ask for the specific policy you violated, their rationale for feeling it was worth a dismissal rather than corrective action, and if it still feels unwarranted, then pursue speaking to your Provost/Dean/VP.

Best of luck to you.

hollyday · May 18, 2016

I realized posting this would get negative and positive feedback. Things happen on the floor. This is a step down unit so it gets hectic. I agree 20 min was too long. In that time I was assessing her and making sure she wasn't showing any signs of stroke. She had it in her hx.

The nurse told my instructor it was hours later, literally 4 hours of me not telling her this.

I am not a sue happy person and I know the procedures of nursing school are pretty hard core. One day your in next day your out. I'm at a loss for what to do next and grasping all different avenues. I'm a student and this is school. If i don't falter here, where can I feel safe to do that? I've already applied to 2 different ADN programs to transfer into their 4th semester. I'm ready to move on.

This forum was just a place to get some feedback. No need to bash me---I'm obviously going through stuff anyways (roser13 ASN). The rudeness of people on online forums is always baffling.

Altra, BSN, RN · May 18, 2016

No one here can adequately comment on your specific circumstances. But the "negative" feedback you are receiving is in response to your own presentation of your case: in short, you are not presenting yourself well.

Bottom line: a patient had a change of condition in your presence and you did not respond by alerting the patient's assigned RN. The reality for all clinicians is that just one error in judgement can cause harm to a patient. Nowhere in your posts do you acknowledge this reality. Instead, what you have chosen to say about that day is that you were watching the clock, the unit was busy, etc. This does not correlate with your claim of being an excellent student in clinicals.

Consider your motivation for posting. Did you believe that your behavior and responses on that day were absolutely correct and would stand up to scrutiny by professional nurses? You have solicited that scrutiny by your post.

Again, no one here can judge the school's decision to dismiss you. We can reasonably assume, however, that as an organization they believe they had sufficient evidence, and most likely evidence of a pattern of behavior over a period of time, to back up that decision. You need to carefully consider this, in order to be able to respond/dispute it, as well as just to mindfully process what has occurred.

Wishing you some thoughtful reflection.

llg, PhD, RN · May 18, 2016

If your fundamental question is: "Should I sue?" then you need to ask that question to an attorney. Gather all of the facts and then meet with an attorney to see if you have a reasonable legal case or not. We have nursing expertise here, not legal expertise -- and your question is a legal one, not a nursing one.

If the story is exactly as you have reported it here, then I would think it was worth pursuing -- at least to the point of talking with an attorney. But as I don't have all the facts, I can't say more than that.

Good luck to you, whatever you decide.

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · May 18, 2016

Moved to the General Nursing Student forum.

pixierose, BSN, RN · May 18, 2016

I realized posting this would get negative and positive feedback. Things happen on the floor. This is a step down unit so it gets hectic. I agree 20 min was too long. In that time I was assessing her and making sure she wasn't showing any signs of stroke. She had it in her hx.
The nurse told my instructor it was hours later, literally 4 hours of me not telling her this.
I am not a sue happy person and I know the procedures of nursing school are pretty hard core. One day your in next day your out. I'm at a loss for what to do next and grasping all different avenues. I'm a student and this is school. If i don't falter here, where can I feel safe to do that? I've already applied to 2 different ADN programs to transfer into their 4th semester. I'm ready to move on.
This forum was just a place to get some feedback. No need to bash me---I'm obviously going through stuff anyways (roser13 ASN). The rudeness of people on online forums is always baffling.

No one here is bashing you, or is being rude, and there's no need to call out Roser. Everyone who responded to you asked for clarification based on the limited (and confusing) info that you provided.

I'm still confused OP. If this patient had a history of stroke, it would have been doubly important for you to grab that nurse ASAP (or your clinical instructor). If your patient fell into unstable atrial fibrillation, or into stroke territory, you're entering ACLS skill time. This entire situation, from what I can understand, screams poor nursing diagnosing skill and follow through. As students, we need to know our limitations. A fib, strokes, what have you ... this is not something students should be doing alone.

The RN had every right to be upset ... and concerned about your safety assessment and priorities. Whether she exaggerated or not, it's her word versus yours. Follow through on the appeal, but I'm not sure how far you'll get.

Libby1987 · May 18, 2016

Why the inconsistency in your story? You were distracted and counting down the clock or you were attending to the patient during that 20 min time? If your defense bounced like that in your meeting, I think that will be an obstacle you can't overcome.

Purple_roses · May 18, 2016

Well wait just a minute. I feel like details need to be clarified. Were you dropped from the program because you waited 20 minutes to notify the nurse about your patient's condition, or were you dropped based on lies that the RN told your instructor?

If you were dropped for waiting too long to report the symptoms: well, it sucks, but students can be dropped for that. By the last semester (as least at my school) very little leniency is shown for safety violations. However, if you were a good student this entire time, I could see leniency being shown to you. I think you need to have a face-to-face meeting with your instructor or the dean and figure out what happened here.

ETA: I'm not usually one to believe that an RN would lie about students, but I did see some less than stellar behavior during my Med/Surg rotation last semester. An RN did not do an important assessment, the student did the assessment and found something bad that should have been noticed 2 days prior, that student told the RN and instructor and was told *not* to document and to let the RN do the documentation on it; the RN never did, and that RN seriously tried to peg the entire situation on the student. So, while I doubt these things happen often, they *do* occasionally happen.