Shooting at nurse's college in Tuscon, AZ??

[indynurse]

I am watching FOXNews and they just reported they have received a "bulletin" about a shooting at a nursing college in Tuscon. They will break in more more news as they get it. Two women have been shot...No word on condition...I hope they are not seriously wounded.

My prayers are with them.

[JMP]

Then what is the answer?

Your response seems to indicate that society needs to be a gentler, kinder place. But it is not. THis guy lived in a state that still carries out the death penalty. Arizona would have put him to death and he knew it, so he killed himself.

Stargazer, what I do know is that people have resposiblites to themselves and to others. The shooter had a responsiblity to himself to ask for help and to others to make sure he got it.

There really is nothing for us to learn from this crime, except more people will consider not leaving there house without a gun, in case they need to use it to defend themselves against another crazy. What else could anyone learn from this........except possibly better access to mental health centers? Who knows if this guy would have even done it. HE SAW HIMSELF AS A VICTIM and that was the main message I saw. Some people spend their whole lives as victims. THEY DO NOT HAVE PSYHCOLOGICAL HARDINESS. They do not get over things and move on.

He had a responsiblity. I have nothing to learn from him or his actions.

[Youda]

Suzy, I don't want to diminish or minimize your experience or thoughts. They have their own validity. As do the others on this thread who post similar ideas.

But, I am asking you to read about bullying. With respect, I tell you that you do not understand how it works, and why it can lead to the kind of tragedies that happened at Columbine and Arizona. Please take a few hours to read and study this social problem that causes so many deaths each year, not only in massacres, but in suicides. Please do that one thing so you can respond from a viewpoint that at least includes an understanding of this syndrome. Then, decide if you agree or disagree. But, please don't continue to dismiss the viewpoints that bullying was a profound causitive factor without understanding the phenomena that some of us are trying to discuss. No hard feelings, I hope.

[Youda]

Suzy, I don't want to diminish or minimize your experience or thoughts. They have their own validity. As do the others on this thread who post similar ideas.

But, I am asking you to read about bullying. With respect, I tell you that you do not understand how it works, and why it can lead to the kind of tragedies that happened at Columbine and Arizona. Please take a few hours to read and study this social problem that causes so many deaths each year, not only in massacres, but in suicides. Please do that one thing so you can respond from a viewpoint that at least includes an understanding of this syndrome. Then, decide if you agree or disagree. But, please don't continue to dismiss the viewpoints that bullying was a profound causitive factor without understanding the phenomena that some of us are trying to discuss. No hard feelings, I hope.

[Q.]

Youda, I will read about "bullying" but nothing will ever take away my belief that you are responsible for you.

I am not dismissing the significance or impact of bullying behavior, nor am I implying it doesn't exist. We have probably all been victims of it. But as an adult, you have the ability to move on, change your circumstances. If bullying at a place of employment is so profound, find another job. It really is that simple. . And an employed, healthy capable man like Flores had no excuse.

In addition, you keep ignoring the possibility that Flores is completely disillusioned at what really occurred, and that, quite possibly, what really occurred was that he was simply not catered to or given special consideration.

The thing is, in my opinion, I have the accounts of Flores, who has proven to be unstable and has made poor decision after poor decision his entire life, and didn't value human life, and I have the accounts of nursing students who interacted with the instructors as well. I am more likely to lend credence to the accounts of other students in the exact same program with the exact same instructors who simply felt that Flores was unjustified in his thoughts and behavior, and that the instructors were supportive, helpful and approachable, than someone who murdered 3 people.

While bullying may exist, sometimes people who are just plain bad ALSO exist, bullying or not.

Again, I'd like to ask: what is Flores' responsibility in all this? No one seems to assign him any, instead, it's shifted to the victims. Never. Never will I understand, never will I empathize, never will I see myself taking another human life, except when my own life is in immediate danger. Never will I utter the words, "yeah he murdered 3 people BUT......"

NEVER.

[Q.]

Youda, I will read about "bullying" but nothing will ever take away my belief that you are responsible for you.

I am not dismissing the significance or impact of bullying behavior, nor am I implying it doesn't exist. We have probably all been victims of it. But as an adult, you have the ability to move on, change your circumstances. If bullying at a place of employment is so profound, find another job. It really is that simple. . And an employed, healthy capable man like Flores had no excuse.

In addition, you keep ignoring the possibility that Flores is completely disillusioned at what really occurred, and that, quite possibly, what really occurred was that he was simply not catered to or given special consideration.

The thing is, in my opinion, I have the accounts of Flores, who has proven to be unstable and has made poor decision after poor decision his entire life, and didn't value human life, and I have the accounts of nursing students who interacted with the instructors as well. I am more likely to lend credence to the accounts of other students in the exact same program with the exact same instructors who simply felt that Flores was unjustified in his thoughts and behavior, and that the instructors were supportive, helpful and approachable, than someone who murdered 3 people.

While bullying may exist, sometimes people who are just plain bad ALSO exist, bullying or not.

Again, I'd like to ask: what is Flores' responsibility in all this? No one seems to assign him any, instead, it's shifted to the victims. Never. Never will I understand, never will I empathize, never will I see myself taking another human life, except when my own life is in immediate danger. Never will I utter the words, "yeah he murdered 3 people BUT......"

NEVER.

[nightingale, RN]

Such chilling similarities Youda to Columbine and Az Murders...

May I ask, forgive me if it is obvious, where did you quote the detective information from on one of your recent posts.. that is so chilling to me.... Thanks all for a lively discussion....

I am fortunate to have this forum for comfort and direction....

[nightingale, RN]

Such chilling similarities Youda to Columbine and Az Murders...

May I ask, forgive me if it is obvious, where did you quote the detective information from on one of your recent posts.. that is so chilling to me.... Thanks all for a lively discussion....

I am fortunate to have this forum for comfort and direction....

[abrenrn]

Vegas - thank your for your picture, it took me a minute but I got it. Sadly, I have contributed.

Last night I posted a response when I was angry and fatigued. I overstated what the person I flamed had said and saw only one side of the story. This is wrong. I apologize.

I fear I may be to emotional about this topic. In that case, it is better for me to back away or at least think before I post.

The above are merely rationales for my post. It was the wrong thing to do.

[abrenrn]

Vegas - thank your for your picture, it took me a minute but I got it. Sadly, I have contributed.

Last night I posted a response when I was angry and fatigued. I overstated what the person I flamed had said and saw only one side of the story. This is wrong. I apologize.

I fear I may be to emotional about this topic. In that case, it is better for me to back away or at least think before I post.

The above are merely rationales for my post. It was the wrong thing to do.

[Stargazer]

Vegas and Youda: smoochies! :kiss

JMP and Susy, I am not for a moment discounting Flores's personal responsibilty in this. At the moment he decided to carry a gun into the school, at the moment he decided to pull that trigger-- that decision, that responsibility, became his. All his. His error, his sin, his crime. I honestly don't think a one of us who has posted here feels differently.

Perhaps where we differ is that I think all the events leading up to that one moment have equal weight --NOT to absolve the shooter, or to blame the victims, but to identify some of the contributing factors, because I guarantee you that there are other people right now, this very moment, who are facing the same problems and the same pressures-- and I want to make damned sure they don't end up in the same place Flores did.

Everyone deals with tragedy differently. Like I said, I am a problem-solver by nature. It gives me no comfort to simply assign blame and walk away. I need to understand why it happened, to look at the systems in place and where they broke down, and talk about how to change things for the better so this never happens again. That is how I deal. And I think it's more productive than the blame game.

Nightngale: thanks for your kind words. Oddly enough, it wasn't painful to talk about. But it's been a lot of years and I didn't give many details. And frankly, there's nothing like a tragedy of this magnitude to put my one terrible semester, no matter how hellish, in perspective.

[Stargazer]

Vegas and Youda: smoochies! :kiss

JMP and Susy, I am not for a moment discounting Flores's personal responsibilty in this. At the moment he decided to carry a gun into the school, at the moment he decided to pull that trigger-- that decision, that responsibility, became his. All his. His error, his sin, his crime. I honestly don't think a one of us who has posted here feels differently.

Perhaps where we differ is that I think all the events leading up to that one moment have equal weight --NOT to absolve the shooter, or to blame the victims, but to identify some of the contributing factors, because I guarantee you that there are other people right now, this very moment, who are facing the same problems and the same pressures-- and I want to make damned sure they don't end up in the same place Flores did.

Everyone deals with tragedy differently. Like I said, I am a problem-solver by nature. It gives me no comfort to simply assign blame and walk away. I need to understand why it happened, to look at the systems in place and where they broke down, and talk about how to change things for the better so this never happens again. That is how I deal. And I think it's more productive than the blame game.

Nightngale: thanks for your kind words. Oddly enough, it wasn't painful to talk about. But it's been a lot of years and I didn't give many details. And frankly, there's nothing like a tragedy of this magnitude to put my one terrible semester, no matter how hellish, in perspective.

[sjoe]

Perhaps we could get Djibouti to like us if we legalized clitorectomies for little girls

as we already do legalize, and even encourage, circumcisions for little boys.