Shooting at nurse's college in Tuscon, AZ??

CMERN · Oct 31, 2002

To agree with someone hwo posted earlier..I too "knew WHY when I heard about it".... I will tell you NURSING SCHOOL is Hell and "some" instructors are HEARTLESS and EARLESS!....I also read this deceased mans letter. He had LOADS more issues...and chose his violent end... He harmed and injured families, everything revolved around him. He was a sad, sad, case. I wonder if he was bit of a drama master. He saw all coscequences of life as caused by "them" ----outside forces. Yes he seems self-centered, but in reality his SELF dependent on all outside people and circumstances. Geez,...and people are dead because he was probably to chicken to just once VENT and say oh KISS my BUTT! and mean it...... WHY THE KILLING> anger passes ...but dead people are always dead... my prayers are with the victims families.

CMERN · Oct 31, 2002

Sorry to post again... but I almost forgot ,.. while I was in first Year. The night before midterms 2 instructors took it upon themselves to personally call 6 students (I wasnt one). and tell the students that they should not even show up for the midterm and consider dropping out all together as THEY the instructor did not "feel" that these students "had what it took" to be an R.N.

What these students did have were BIG mouths thank god and we all collectively had a wall climbing fit and notified the state board of this incident. This was not the only shananigans the " instructors" tried in the following two years. Upon the month of our graduation the State Board of Nursing came for inspection and Placed that school of nursing on Probation and began requireing copious amounts of paperwork and evidence that the INSTRUCTORS were competant HAHAHAHAH>> :chuckle So yes..students Should not LIE down and take it ..WE PAY (dearly) to get an education.... ! I dont remember signing up for "INSTRUCTORS OPINION 101"

CMERN · Oct 31, 2002

Sorry to post again... but I almost forgot ,.. while I was in first Year. The night before midterms 2 instructors took it upon themselves to personally call 6 students (I wasnt one). and tell the students that they should not even show up for the midterm and consider dropping out all together as THEY the instructor did not "feel" that these students "had what it took" to be an R.N.

What these students did have were BIG mouths thank god and we all collectively had a wall climbing fit and notified the state board of this incident. This was not the only shananigans the " instructors" tried in the following two years. Upon the month of our graduation the State Board of Nursing came for inspection and Placed that school of nursing on Probation and began requireing copious amounts of paperwork and evidence that the INSTRUCTORS were competant HAHAHAHAH>> :chuckle So yes..students Should not LIE down and take it ..WE PAY (dearly) to get an education.... ! I dont remember signing up for "INSTRUCTORS OPINION 101"

Danielle4 · Oct 31, 2002

I think that it is a good thing he didn't make it through nursing school. I think that the stress in school is to prepare us for the stressful role of a nurse. If he could not handle the stress in school he may not have been able to make it as a nurse.

I think males make great nurses probably because in order to endure it they really have to have the ambition to do it. I also think that women have to endure things when being in a male dominated role too just the same as men in a female dominated role. Look at all the problems women have had becoming police officers or fire fighters even in the military or the computer industry or the business world. They are all male dominated. I just think it comes with the territory. They knew that when they signed up for nursing school about it. Not that I do not sympathize, but it is the way the real world is. I definitely think that it should not be this way, but reality is that it is.

I agree something should have been done especially if he threatened this beforehand. I still do not think that gives him an "excuse" for what he did though. He was still 41 years old and last I checked that made him an adult why did he do so much whinning? I still think one does make a choice to be depressed. I think we all are adults and should take responsibility for his actions. He should have signed himself up for counseling or something. I do see why he felt the way he did don't get me wrong, but I still think everything one does is a choice in life. He should have sought help from someone. There are programs out there that you do not have to have insurance for. Maybe he should have joined a church to make some friends. I don't know, but he should have reached out to someone. Why couldn't he see his kids if he was paying child support. Couldn't he have gotten his wife in trouble for moving so much? Doesn't she have to keep them in one state? I do not know the logistics behind it, but it sounds like he was not there for them to begin with. I just think yes he ruined his own life, but why did he have to go and ruin other lives by killing and does his sad life justify what he did. I just don't think so. I don't think his life was that bad that he had the right to take other lifes. Didn't he worry about what his kids thought of him?

I think your posts in remorse for him are nice of you. In fact, I think that is what makes YOU a good nurse. You have the compassion he was missing to finish the program. We should be glad he weeded himself out because he would not have made a good nurse. He may have been smart, but he could not handle the stress and I think when people are depressed they blow everything out of proportion. There is hormonally depressed and yes maybe that is not by choice, but I still think environmental attributed depression is by choice.

Danielle4 · Oct 31, 2002

I think that it is a good thing he didn't make it through nursing school. I think that the stress in school is to prepare us for the stressful role of a nurse. If he could not handle the stress in school he may not have been able to make it as a nurse.

I think males make great nurses probably because in order to endure it they really have to have the ambition to do it. I also think that women have to endure things when being in a male dominated role too just the same as men in a female dominated role. Look at all the problems women have had becoming police officers or fire fighters even in the military or the computer industry or the business world. They are all male dominated. I just think it comes with the territory. They knew that when they signed up for nursing school about it. Not that I do not sympathize, but it is the way the real world is. I definitely think that it should not be this way, but reality is that it is.

I agree something should have been done especially if he threatened this beforehand. I still do not think that gives him an "excuse" for what he did though. He was still 41 years old and last I checked that made him an adult why did he do so much whinning? I still think one does make a choice to be depressed. I think we all are adults and should take responsibility for his actions. He should have signed himself up for counseling or something. I do see why he felt the way he did don't get me wrong, but I still think everything one does is a choice in life. He should have sought help from someone. There are programs out there that you do not have to have insurance for. Maybe he should have joined a church to make some friends. I don't know, but he should have reached out to someone. Why couldn't he see his kids if he was paying child support. Couldn't he have gotten his wife in trouble for moving so much? Doesn't she have to keep them in one state? I do not know the logistics behind it, but it sounds like he was not there for them to begin with. I just think yes he ruined his own life, but why did he have to go and ruin other lives by killing and does his sad life justify what he did. I just don't think so. I don't think his life was that bad that he had the right to take other lifes. Didn't he worry about what his kids thought of him?

I think your posts in remorse for him are nice of you. In fact, I think that is what makes YOU a good nurse. You have the compassion he was missing to finish the program. We should be glad he weeded himself out because he would not have made a good nurse. He may have been smart, but he could not handle the stress and I think when people are depressed they blow everything out of proportion. There is hormonally depressed and yes maybe that is not by choice, but I still think environmental attributed depression is by choice.

Q. · Oct 31, 2002

Just a minor note: he already was a nurse, just not an RN, BSN,

Q. · Oct 31, 2002

Just a minor note: he already was a nurse, just not an RN, BSN,

Danielle4 · Oct 31, 2002

Sorry, I guess he was an LPN.

I don't understand why he was not happy that he was already a nurse then. I guess he was just frustrated and he did not think he was going to make his goal to get his BSN.

How sad.

Danielle4 · Oct 31, 2002

Sorry, I guess he was an LPN.

I don't understand why he was not happy that he was already a nurse then. I guess he was just frustrated and he did not think he was going to make his goal to get his BSN.

How sad.

rncountry · Oct 31, 2002

Thank you Tracy, for saying such nice things. I always enjoy your posts too.

Danielle, why should it come with the territory, so to speak? Why should it be ok to treat a male in the nursing program poorly based on his gender? As a woman I howl when I believe that I am being treated less simply because I don't have a dick, and I don't see that it should be any different for a man being treated badly in a female dominated field.

It is my belief and has been for some time, that the pyschology of nursing school is exactly what Roland pointed out. Whether it is actually thought out or not, there is an element in which the way we are treated as students is perpetuated by the institutions that we work in, as well as being perpetrated by many physicians, who know they will not be reprimanded by the facility. The hierachy that exists in nursing also perpetuates this. Danielle you wonder why Mr. Flores was not simply happy being an LPN. Why does any LPN go back to school? Money, more prestige, more independence in the practice, and self satisfaction. Why does anyone decide to continue in any education? Why do ADN's opt to get a BSN, particularly when in many cases it doesn't even bring more money? Career advancement, the "right" to be called a professional from the viewpoint of some, and again personal satisfaction.

You know why the biggest reason I don't go back and get my BSN? Because nursing school was so painful to have to do, worked full time, my husband stationed elsewhere so no support there, my children 2 and 5 years old and I did my prereqs. with my nursing classes, that I cannot imagine having to go through it all over again. Not to mention this time around I am not the same person who would keep my mouth shut so I could graduate. I have become plenty assertive, and would likely get myself in trouble. I look back at nursing school and have no idea how I managed it. Real life nursing is not nearly as stressful as school was. To me to use the excuse that real nursing is stressful and it is therefore acceptable to use intimidation tactics to "weed out" students is a bunch of horse pukey.

I have seriously considered writing the paper in which this letter was published just to say, yes, nursing school is exactly like Mr. Flores described. And then it gets perpetuated by older nurses on newer nurses and we stand there and wring our hands and wonder why we are so damn nasty to one another?

And I also have to say this to Danielle. No, the Friend of the Court will not hardly ever, keep someone from moving your kids wherever they want to go. No matter how many times they are moved. At one time my husband's ex moved their children to AZ. He knew only that they went to that state and nothing more. He didn't know where his children were for two years and NO ONE GAVE A DAMN! Not the state of Michigan and not the state of Arizonia. He finally tracked them down through family members and by back tracking on some old phone numbers from those family members that were willing to share information with him. And when the child support is set, they don't care if you have enough to live on yourself or not. There are preset scales, at least in Michigan, based on your wage. There is no consideration given for housing prices, what your bills may be already etc... Nor is there anyway to ensure that the money for child support is actually going to support the children. My husband pays $154 a week for two children, but the child support was not going to the kids. For over 4 years we paid child support and also bought all the school clothes, school supplies, winter coats, winter boots, then spring coats, new tennis shoes, summer clothes and right on down the line, until I was fed up. Do you know how hard it is to have to say I can't do this anymore? I know they are your children, but I can't put a dime in the bank and we have children that are needing to be able to go to college? And just because their mother and stepfather have an inability to actually get and keep a job themselves because then they might have to haul their lazy asses out of bed in the morning. We repeatedly went to the FOC and got nothing. Both boys were failing in school, one has medical problems and is on anti seizure medication, with repeatedly missed Dr. appts, no drug levels being drawn when they were supposed to be, still nothing from the FOC. Then there was the day that the youngest at 8, told me about a day his stepfather had choked him until he passed out. Did child protective services do anything? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Their answer? It was rough play that got out of hand. I shit you not. And I will tell you that if there was anytime in my life I seriously wanted to shot and kill someone it was then. I brought two boxes of documentation of this stuff to the FOC and they did NOTHING. My husband is one of the nicest, easiest going men you would ever meet, but trust me when I say the stepfather would not dare to lay a hand on either boy anymore. When all other legal avenues fail what do you do to protect your children? You put the fear of God into the person who has harmed your children. What I am saying is don't assume that Mr. Flores was the bad guy in his marriage or in lack of followup with his children.

I do not believe that killing others is a solution, but I certainly can understand the forces that drove him.

And thanks guys for not flaming me. I truly expected it to happen.

rncountry · Oct 31, 2002