Sexism in Advanced Practice?

[adventure_rn, MSN, NP]

I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced sexism in the workplace as an NP, especially compared to working as an RN?

Perhaps it's because my field (NICU, peds) was so heavily female-dominated, but I only recall extremely rare instances of sexism from colleagues in the many years I worked as a nurse.

Now in my specialty as an NP, there is a larger proportion of men in my workforce compared to nursing, and more than half of the attendings in my specialty are men. Even living in a very progressive area, I have noticed so many more examples of both subversive and overt sexism than I did as a nurse. I want to preface it by saying that the majority of the male APPs I work with are amazing. However, the vast majority of the thankless, back-end 'secretarial' style work that makes a lot of the clinics run tends to fall on the women APPs, especially in a shared workforce where a set of patients is jointly managed by several (male and female) APPs. In addition, the small handful of terrible male APPs I work with seem to be given a pass by the male attendings because they've got a chummy, 'boy's club' kind of vibe. I also see so many more examples of attendings making overtly sexist remarks to APPs than I did in nursing under the guise that it's a 'safe space just between us' where we're just 'joking around.'

I understand that gender dynamics in nursing are extremely complicated, and that men face a lot of discrimination in nursing. I also think that the nursing and APP workforce benefits from having more equal gender distribution.

Even so, I've been so taken aback by this gender dynamic because I've never experienced it until now. It is a new and frustrating part of the job that I never expected.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

I've never faced sexism as an NP.  Most NPs are women.  I worked in primary care and at that position had a female CMO.  No sexism experienced there.  Now I work in outpatient mental health and no sexism experienced.  My mentor is a male psychiatrist and he has been great.  My boss, and the CMO and practice owner, is a male psychiatrist and he has given me a lot of raises and recognition.  

[GoodNP]

"the vast majority of the thankless, back-end 'secretarial' style work that makes a lot of the clinics run tends to fall on the women APPs"

would love to hear some examples of this

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

GoodNP said:

"the vast majority of the thankless, back-end 'secretarial' style work that makes a lot of the clinics run tends to fall on the women APPs"

would love to hear some examples of this

Me too.  Clinics and practices have M.A.s and administrative staff.  So I have no idea what kind of secretarial work the OP is referring to.  Larger clinics may also employ LVNs and RNs.  

The OP may be unaware than NPs can be the CMO for a facility.  I've seen this on more than occasion.  I've also seen RNs promoted to senior executive positions, including CEO, of larger clinic systems.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

I have never been an NP, but I've been an RN since the late 70s.  I have experienced a LOT of sexism in nursing.  One would think it would have gotten better over the decades, and it has, to some extent.  (No one has grabbed my boobs, yanked my skirt off, or come up behind me and put his hands on me -- and that was just the MDs -- in this century, allthough that might also be because I'm older now, and not young and cute.)

There was the assumption that the nurses (female nurses) would babysit the male physicians' children when they brought their kids in on the weekends.  Like I had nothing better to do than prevent your kid from damaging equipment or themselves.  Swinging on the Hoyer Lift was always a thing.

There was the talking down to us, the assumption that we didn't know what was going on with our patients or in our own lives, and the assumption that any male in the room -- including the student we were precepting -- knew more about anything than we did.  There was the expectation that we offer our chairs when the MD showed up, and fetch coffee and an ash tray.  And then there was the wage gap -- and don't try to tell me it's because "men work more overtime" or "men take more challenging jobs."  I was married to two male RNs, and I saw the pay stubs.  In union hospitals, too.  My friend the nurse manager says, "there's always a way to find a little extra pay for someone if you want to," and she admits she was encouraged by administration to find a little extra for every nurse with a penis.  

I could go on and on, but I've put off getting a new phone for so long that this one holds a charge for an hour, so I'm off to the store.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

Ruby Vee said:

I have never been an NP, but I've been an RN since the late 70s.  I have experienced a LOT of sexism in nursing.  

I'm sorry you went through this, but the question was about sexism in Advanced Practice, not for RNs.  I think pretty much every woman that worked in the 20th century experienced sexism.  Sexism has declined considerably since then.  The majority of new medical school students are now women.

[heron, ASN, RN]

FullGlass said:

I'm sorry you went through this, but the question was about sexism in Advanced Practice, not for RNs.  I think pretty much every woman that worked in the 20th century experienced sexism.  Sexism has declined considerably since then.  The majority of new medical school students are now women.

 "Be quiet, you're just a nurse …”

Unbelievable!

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

heron said:

 "Be quiet, you're just a nurse …”

Unbelievable!

I distinctly felt that vibe.  Thanks for saying it.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

heron said:

 "Be quiet, you're just a nurse …”

Unbelievable!

Did I say that?  No, I did not.  I correctly pointed out that the question was for Advanced Practice Nurses, not for RNs.  I would not answer a questions directed at RNs, as I am not an RN.   I think that RNs are more likely than APRNs to experience sexism at work.

Ruby Vee said:

I distinctly felt that vibe.  Thanks for saying it.

  heron said:

 "Be quiet, you're just a nurse …”

 

Did I say that?  No, I did not.  I correctly pointed out that the question was for Advanced Practice Nurses, not for RNs.  I would not answer a question directed at RNs, as I am not an RN.   I think that RNs are more likely than APRNs to experience sexism at work.

[heron, ASN, RN]

FullGlass said:

Did I say that?  No, I did not.  I correctly pointed out that the question was for Advanced Practice Nurses, not for RNs.  I would not answer a questions directed at RNs, as I am not an RN.   I think that RNs are more likely than APRNs to experience sexism at work.

And have you ever asked yourself why?

That you have rarely, if ever, actually practiced as an RN wouldn't surprise me, but what do you think the "N" in NP stands for? You might research the actual origins of your field.

[heron, ASN, RN]

Ruby Vee said:

I distinctly felt that vibe.  Thanks for saying it.

I remember when advanced practice nursing was in its infancy. The idea was to prepare highly experienced, expert nurses to use their skills to the fullest - not to take novices and turn them into MD-lite.

And, to return to the subject of the thread, I don't believe for a minute that APRNs experience less sexism than us plebes, just different presentations.

[FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP]

heron said:

And have you ever asked yourself why?

That you have rarely, if ever, actually practiced as an RN wouldn't surprise me, but what do you think the "N" in NP stands for? You might research the actual origins of your field.

You are being overly sensitive and you also did not read the original question closely.  Here is the original question:  "I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced sexism in the workplace as an NP, especially compared to working as an RN?"  The question clearly was about sexism experienced as an NP, not as an RN.  For those who also worked as RNs, it asks for a comparison.  

Let me put this another way:  If there was question asking me if I had experienced sexism while working as an RN, I would not answer it because I have not worked as an RN, so I would not have relevant experience.

I also note that you seem to be attempting to "belittle" me and sending a negative "vibe" if I have not worked as an RN.    Shame on you. 

This section of the Allnurses forum is targeted at APRNs, and most APRNs are NPs.  NPs are providers.  An RN is not an APRN or a provider.  These are different professions.  In most organizations, as providers, NPs report to the CMO.  And the CMO can be an NP.  RNs have a different chain of command.