Scrubs magazine article/BSN in 10?

VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN · Jan 24, 2013

Moved to the Registered Nurses Forum: Diploma/ ADN / BSN, as better suited to this type of inquiry :)

soxgirl2008 · Jan 25, 2013

I don't see this at all where I live. I know it's happening in places across the country, but I haven't seen it here... The hospitals around here regularly hire ADNs. Even the magnet hospitals are still hiring some ADN new grads, and I've never ever heard of a new BSN getting a job over an experienced ADN around here. Then again, where I live there are many more ADN programs than BSN. In the capital 2 hours north of here I know it's predominantly BSN. There is talk of having all the state ADN programs pair up with BSN programs so you can complete your BSN right away

chuckster, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Jan 25, 2013

While ADN programs still account for the lion's share of nursing graduates, the trend in many areas is "BSN required." In my part of the world, the metro Phila area, it is difficult, bordering on impossible for ADN grads to find work in hospitals. I graduated from a very highly regarded CC nursing program, who's graduates used to be sought after by every hospital in the region.

Not any more.

Now, the new grads - at least those that can manage to find jobs - are overwhelmingly employed in LTC. Nearly every advertisement for nursing positions states unequivocally that only BSN's will be considered. While the degree to which this has happened may be unique to the Phila area (where there are literally thousands of new grad nurses every year looking for less than few hundred hospital positions), anecdotal evidence suggests something similar is going on in nearly every urban area on both coasts.

Sad to say, but many of the major points made in the Scrubs article are accurate.

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Jan 25, 2013

I worked in a Magnet hospital in the Philadelphia area who works with the "BSN in 10" rule, mostly because they have a school affiliated with the hospital...Chuckster is correct in saying the Philadelphia, PA area is in the mode to hire BSN prepared nurses, however, there are plenty of community hospitals that hire ADNs, and new grads in phases as well. The area is saturated with Magnet Hospitals- SEVEN total...Two in the city that are known for their research, Two children's hospitals, a cancer center...include another hospital that is affiliated in the same health system; and include another hospital with one if the research hospitals... and one wanting to become Magnet ready, and you have EIGHT major hospitals in Philadelphia ALONE.that employ the most nurses requesting BSN prepared nurses, and tens and THOUSANDS mercilessly trying to get into these hospitals. We are not talking about the other hospitals that are included in the Philadelphia suburbs or in South Jersey. Magnet hospitals are coveted: clinical ladder models to promote the full extent of nursing practice and leadership abilities, Nursing theory and philosophy driven, certifications, and years of service are valued, collaborative models to promote nursing decisions, low nursing burnout, boasted nursing satisfaction...according to the research from nurses surveyed when designating these hospitals Magnet Status. So you have hospitals wanting to achieve such status, and it has increased in the area for a decade...I worked at this hospital when it was one of the ONLY two hospitals designated...and that was in 2002. So this market area has been building designation over a decade, with these hospitals REPEATING designation, or collecting additional designations currently, there have been discussions about it and the time is here in this area. I do feel that some area schools have done a disservice in not linking to several area universities, while some hospital programs had programs linked to universities when the Magnet designations were starting years ago. People want excellent care from nurses, so it may be coming to other areas of the country sooner or later. It has left a lot of qualified ADNs AND LPNs out of the hospital setting in some instances. I had to leave the Magnet hospital in 2005, when they stopped hiring bedside LPNs...fast forward 8 years later, I am joining another Magnet hospital as a new grad BSN. I hope that AD and diploma nurses will be grandfathered in...a quality nurse is a quality nurse!

Altra, BSN, RN · Jan 25, 2013

some states are mandating BSN in 10 after your entry)

OP, can you provide some reference/link to a state which currently requires a BSN for licensure - either prior to initial licensure or within a certain time frame after licensure?

soxgirl2008 · Jan 25, 2013

I don't think any states have actually mandated a BSN in 10 or anything like that yet...I've heard that New Jersey and New York are trying to do it, but nothing has actually passed yet.

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Jan 25, 2013

http://www.nursecredentialing.org/Magnet/FindaMagnetFacility

You can look up how many facilities are Magnet in your area... In PA, there are 23, 1/2 are in the Philadelphia area ALONE. There are 329 Magnet-designated areas in the country, AND COUNTING...even if there is no law, there may be Magnet facilities leaning towards hiring only BSN prepared new grads.

soxgirl2008 · Jan 25, 2013

I wasn't saying magnet facilities weren't leaning towards hiring BSN, I was just saying I didn't think there was a mandated law in effect anywhere yet. I know many magnet facilities prefer to hire BSN. Thanks for the link! Interesting to see where the magnet facilites are in my state.

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Jan 25, 2013

I wasn't saying magnet facilities weren't leaning towards hiring BSN I was just saying I didn't think there was a mandated law in effect anywhere yet. I know many magnet facilities prefer to hire BSN. Thanks for the link! Interesting to see where the magnet facilites are in my state.[/quote']
Yes I realized what you said in your post the "you" was addressed to everybody. :)
IMO, if one lives in a saturated Magnet area, the norm will be BSN-prepared climate. There may not be a need for a "mandate" ( not that there's a need at least to me) in the future...

chuckster, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Jan 26, 2013

I don't see this at all where I live. I know it's happening in places across the country, but I haven't seen it here... The hospitals around here regularly hire ADNs. Even the magnet hospitals are still hiring some ADN new grads, and I've never ever heard of a new BSN getting a job over an experienced ADN around here. Then again, where I live there are many more ADN programs than BSN. In the capital 2 hours north of here I know it's predominantly BSN. There is talk of having all the state ADN programs pair up with BSN programs so you can complete your BSN right away

It is fair to say that an ADN with nursing experience will likely be hired when competing for the same job with new grad BSN. This is largely true nearly everywhere, and is even the case, for the most part, in my oversaturated area.

The BSN preference issue is really germane only with respect to new grads. In that case, the scales are tiped overwhelmingly toward BSNs. In many areas, such as metro Phila, NYC, Miami, much of CA and AZ, NJ and no doubt many other places, many hospitals - not just Magnets - are restricting new hires to BSNs. That does not mean that ADNs are completely shut out however. Many ADNs who worked as PCTs or CNAs wind up being hired as RNs at the hospitals that employed them. Even the Magnet hospitals will occasionally hire an ADN. But the job market is very, very tight for new grad ADNs in terms of hospital jobs in a growing number of places in the US.

DoGoodThenGo · Jan 26, 2013

Think in areas of the country that have both a surplus of nurses (both experienced and new grads) along with a tightening employment market brought about by various reasons, yes the BSN is going to be de facto mandatory for landing at least a new hire gig at any TOL or MOL hospital if not across the board. LTC, nursing homes, home care, rehab, etc... maybe a different story.

Here in NYC we have lost something like 15 hospitals over the past decade and all but a few of those remaining are sitting very near the window's edge. Just this week for instance there was news that SUNY Downstate and Long Island College Hospital in Brooklyn are in dire financial straits and the latter may be closed.

Against this backdrop we still have local nursing programs chugging out new grads every six or twelve months. While a few ADN programs have closed (Long Island College Hospital) most have remained and couple of new ones (Swedish Institute) have opened. Then you have the vast expansion of ABSN programs being offered by most every nursing school with an undergraduate BSN program.

In 2008 2,246/2,849 (passed/took) NYS BSN grads took the NCLEX. That number grew each of the following years to reach 2,609/3,156 in 2011 which is the last year of data reported. On the ADN side we have 5,295/6,271 (passed/took) in 2008 and 5,565/6,568 in 2011.

When you read the latest state workforce survey two things stand out: NYS hospitals predict a shortage of "experienced nurses" and are actively seeking to increase their numbers of BSN prepared nurses. http://www.hanys.org/workforce/data/docs/2011-06-10-workforce_survey_results_2011.pdf

Those last bits taken together go far to explain the current nurse employment market in much of NYC if not NYS.

Experienced nurses are first choice for hires. Better if she has the BSN but can offer incentives or conditions to ADN hires that they correct.

New grad hires are next but for most units the BSN is preferred if not mandatory. If an ADN is hired see above.