school withholds credentials

je_da · Jul 13, 2007

3 months after i graduated, i sent nclex forms to my school to be filled up. they asked me, "oh taking the nclex right away?" i answered, "i just want my credentials to be ready for my application and if i am eligible, i'll take the exam." after 2 days i got the filled up forms, no questions asked.

i think i've read something (i couldn't remember what book) that filipino nurses have to render 1 year service before they can work to other countries. but it doesn't mean you can't get your school credentials because of that.

talk to the dean about it. good luck!

SilverSurfer · Jul 14, 2007

You need your school to furnish transcripts to the BON for the state that you wish to get licensed in, and that means that they need to receive it before they will even permit you to sit for the exam. There is no dilemma, there is not a thing that you can do about it. And should not even want to. The reason that you went to nursing school in the first place should not have been for an instant ticket to the US.
You need to have said transcripts also submitted to ICHP/CGFNS for the Visa Screen Certificate.
And you are not going to like what I am going to post here, but I commend your Dean for doing this. And this used to be how things were done in the past in your country, even for those that completed a full four year program; they did the year of service afterwards. And that is why the programs from PI in the past had such quite respect in the past. You actually owe something to your Dean for having you do this, it will give you the skills that you need, but may not even know that you need.
What we have been seeing, this has been sorely needed for sometime. Just because you get thru nursing school there does not mean that you have the required skill set under your belt. Many here have not even done any of the things that you should be able to complete with your eyes closed.
Which school did you graduate from?

hi, Im always an avid follower of your posts, as I remembered you once posted that the Nursing Practice here in the Philippines is much different from the US practice. So why do we have to have a 1yr of practice here, when US Hospitals have a Re-Training Program for New Graduates. One more thing, Filipino Nurses have 4 year BSN degree compared to US counterparts who most of them graduated only for 2 years. I believe most hospitals petition Nurses if they dont have work experiences, the important thing is they passed their Nclex Exams and complied with the Immigration Requirements. So. I think it only delays the entry of qualified filipino nurses to the U.S. specially with the growing competition from other Asian countries.

john83, BSN, RN · Jul 15, 2007

i think i've read something (i couldn't remember what book) that filipino nurses have to render 1 year service before they can work to other countries.

that applies only to graduates of state/gov't schools of nursing.

john83, BSN, RN · Jul 15, 2007

I went to my school, but wasn't able to talk to the Dean. The office secretary told me that they are just following the rule of the nursing schools association. She could not give me the exact association. I would like to ask if anyone knows such an association with that rule. THanks so much! If it were really indeed a policy of an organization which my school belongs to, why weren't we informed of such a rule ahead of time instead of just now when we will be asking for our files?Anyway, if anyone has info on this, please share..Thanks again..

I think you are referring to the Association of Deans of Philippine Colleges of Nursing (ADPCN).

There is no such rule if you graduated from a private school. IMHO, I think she can be charged administratively with abuse of authority and it can be lodged against the dean's license(this might just be one of the many accusations that can filed against this dean).

If you are a private school graduate and they continue to insist on withholding your documents, know that they have violated your rights as a graduate.

Surface up and be heard; you will help others who are in the same situation.

suzanne4, RN · Jul 15, 2007

hi, Im always an avid follower of your posts, as I remembered you once posted that the Nursing Practice here in the Philippines is much different from the US practice. So why do we have to have a 1yr of practice here, when US Hospitals have a Re-Training Program for New Graduates. One more thing, Filipino Nurses have 4 year BSN degree compared to US counterparts who most of them graduated only for 2 years. I believe most hospitals petition Nurses if they dont have work experiences, the important thing is they passed their Nclex Exams and complied with the Immigration Requirements. So. I think it only delays the entry of qualified filipino nurses to the U.S. specially with the growing competition from other Asian countries.

Sorry, but I do not agree with your train of thought on this at all. Hate to tell you but the actual nursing part of the curriculums are the same in the two year program in the US and the four year program anywher else. The required courses have to be completed to be able to sit for the NCLEX-RN exam. And there are four year program in PI that do not meet the requirements and the nurse has had to make up hours, and this is even with CA BRN. The major difference is that you have taken the other courses required to get a Bachelor's degree, such as languages, humanities, etc. The only actual nursing courses that are different are some in management, and public health. But for working in a hospital, that skill set is actually the same. And if you wish to be picky about it, I actually graduated from a two year hospital program and have a Diploma in Nursing. So by your calculations, I have had minimal experience. But funny thing is that it was hospital based and I had more clinical time than any of the BSN programs back then. Clinical training has alot more to say about how the nurse will be rather than the number of years of their progam.

Taking and passing the NCLEX exam says nothing about what your skills are going to be like. In the past, that someone had RN after their name meant that they had at least a certain skill base. However that is not the case in the Philippines now in many cases. The issue has become that you have way more students than you have patients, the ratio in many programs now have 15 to 18 students per one patient. Not the 1 student per patient at a time that we have in the US. Therefore many basic skills are lacking; such as NG insertion, foley cath insertion, IV starts and maintenance.

Hospitals have new grad programs where you are expected to have basic skills to begin with. They do not have retraining programs, you were expected to have basic skills to start with.

And you are equating having a degree with having the appropriate clinical experience and that is not the case. If it were, then it would not be such an issue as it is right now.

And if you have checked lately, it is actually very difficult to get petitioned by a hospital in CA as a new grad. They are getting enough applicants that have a better skill set to start off with. I actually applaud this Dean for trying to make it easier for you to get hired. But I would prefer a set program like they had back in the old days with nurses in your country. My contemporaries that graduated from the Universities there all had to do a year internship and that is where the wonderful reputation came from. Not from the programs that are there now. This is just how things are and what is currently happening.

And I have personally seen more than 6 new grads that were not able to cut it in the hospital job that they were hired for due to lack of basic skills to start with, and this was with those that have graduated in the past two years but did not have any experience and were lacking in basic nursing skills to begin with. Salaries are also much higher than they used to be and it is expensive to keep a nurse in orientation for a much longer period than they were initially hired for. This is what many of you do not understand.

The other thing that many of you are not aware of that many of the students in US programs are working while they are going to school in nurse internship programs on weekends and vacation time, so they already have that additional skill set that you do not have when you start working over here.

And please do not take any of this the wrong way, it should be considered constructive for you. I have spent years trying to help foreign nurses, if I did not care, I would not put in the time that I do here as a volunteer. I am stating what I have observed over the past few years; what I do not like as well as what I do like.

And remember that there are actually more nurses that wish to work in the US than there are visas available for. And what would you do if you were in the employers shoes? Would you hire someone that wants to work in the US and has ten years of experience as an RN, or someone that is a new grad and has no experience? The one with the experience will always will out, hands down. The Dean is trying to help prepare you for this. And I expect it to become mandatory with all programs again as it was in the past. There has been much talk about this over the past year or so.

suzanne4, RN · Jul 15, 2007

And to add to the above: The actual practice of nursing is different in your country from many others. But the basic skill set of a registered nurse should be the same no matter where they have trained. And this is what is also different right now.

And it should not be.

SilverSurfer · Jul 15, 2007

Posted by lindarn

Re: " nursing students being denied admission has grown sixfold since 2002"

"I would like to discuss my experience with trying to return to nursing. I attended the National Teaching Institute for Critical Care Nurses in May. The exhibition hall was packed with recruiters, and hospital representatives "looking" for nurses.

After I got back home, I was inundated with calls from travel agencies. I also received a newsletter from University of Washington, and Harborview in Seattle. I called the number on the flyer, and spoke to someone in Human Resources.

I told her that I had not worked in 5 years, but my license and certifications were current. I also told her how I attend the Critcal Care Symposium every year, and earn 30- 40 CEUs at each convention. I asked what day shift jobs were availabe, including the resource pool.

This was the response I received:

WELL, you already have TWO STRIKES AGAINST YOU!

I said, "really. And what would those be"?

WELL, you haven't worked in five years. I responded, " and"? Then she said, "and you don't want to work nights"!

I asked her if she really thought it would be harder to orient me, with 25 years of ICU experience, as opposed to a new grad, right out of school, with no experience?". She said, "it is usually easier that way". I then stated, "you have an entire older, experienced, group of nurses, who would like to come back to work, but do not want to, or have the stamina, to work 12 hour nights shifts". She then said, "well, that is the way it is".

This is why older nurses do not want to come back to work. Hospitals do not want to give any accomadations to older nurses. Period. And of course, they can pay new grads $10 and hour less, than the older nurses.

So much for this Nursing Shortage!"

Lindarn RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

I do not think that most of the hospitals prefer Nurses with experience. From a personal experience, they hired my wife who was a new graduate 2 years ago, hired by UCSF, through AOS.

Thank you lindarn for you post.

suzanne4, RN · Jul 15, 2007

Right now, there is a retrogression in place and there has been no hiring much in the way of numbers in the past year. And the majority of the nurses coming from PI are out of the two year BSN programs, so again, the nursing is essentially a two year program as well.

And you are talking of two different things. Attitude of the nurse has alot to do with things in the first place and how someone interviews. And there are new nurses that come in that are more open to change and are not set in their ways. And again, it comes down to what the clinical skill base was of the nurse in the first place. And that is what this discussion is about.

Most that wish to work in the US do not have the luxury of going thru the AOS process. And for those coming over to the US on a tourist visa, it is actually in violation of US immigration law to come to the US for a dual intent.

And what was done two years ago, is not what is happening now in the Bay Area. I gave my opinion on things, and why I like this program that this school is putting into place. I have seen a lacking in clinical skills coming from nurses that have just graduated from PI, and this ia generalized statement. When you have clinical instructors that have never worked in a hospital but are now teaching and without any hospital experience, things are just going to be different. That is how things are.

And maybe to word things better: What would make me more marketable to a facility at this time. And there is also a very large difference between a person that has 25 years of experience and someone that has one or two years. There is no comparisom so what you are using as your response to me does not answer the question.

And currently in the Bay Area, there are very few that will even consider hiring and petitioning a new grad, they want at least a couple of years of experience if they did not graduate from a school in the area.