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School issue

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Okay, so I really just need everyones opinion on this issue. Every semester we have a pass/fail pharmacology exam that you have two attempts to receive an 80% on. I have always passed these exams on the first try however this semester several of us missed the first one by 1 question and did not pass it the second time. However on the first exam i have valid documentation from several sources that show that the question did not go into enough detail and that in fact my answer was also correct. Now, let me also tell you that a student in my class also had this issue with another question on the exam so she was given credit for her answer as well, which made her 75% go up to an 80% and she passed. However when me and another student show our documentation supporting our answer, the director says that in that case the question would be thrown out (which would not help because that would give us a 78.9% so we wouldn't have an 80). So can I have your input? Do you think its fair that this other student got credit for her answer and she simply doesn't want to do the same for us? Btw, when confronted with that question her only response is "I cannot discuss another students situation with you". I just want her to be fair in how she handles the matter.

Oh and might I add that this ONE exam in our LAST semester is trying to fail us in TWO classes (meg surg 2, where the exam was given, and internship). We were informed by the DIRECTOR that it would not affect our internship and now she is going back on that word saying that it will. With that being said, this will give us 2 F's, when we have never failed a class before, and we would have to appeal at the end of the semester to be let back into the program and finish our last semester.

Input please! :)

mrsboots87

Specializes in Neuro, Telemetry. Has 6 years experience.

The director is right in that she cannot discuss the other student's problem with you. There could be various reasons why the other student was awarded a point instead of just throwing out a question and the director owes none of those reasons to you It may sound harsh, but its reality. In the real world of nursing, you may get in trouble for something similar to something another nurse did not get in trouble for. Focusing on the other person will not help your situation. Life is not always fair. And if it was ONE student getting a point back on their exam, then thats one thing. But when multiple students find an error with a questions and have supporting material, then instead of just giving the point, the question is often thrown out or everyone is given a point. The class instructor has the discretion to decide which.

My question is, why do you fee you are owed this point when you failed the exam twice? You only failed by the one point on the first try. This would have given you notice that you needed to study a bit more in order to pass it the second time. But you didn't. You must have failed it worse if you arent disputing the second exam. Im sorry that you will likely fail and need to appeal over this. It truly does suck after youve worked so hard to get to this point in your schooling. But in the end, you need to focus on yourself and what you can do to improve. Not what other students have done. Then entire post is filled with "we" and "another student." Those students dont matter. How those students do on NCLEX wont matter. What matters is you. So you need to start reflecting on yourself and stop worying about everyone else.

BeachsideRN, ASN

Specializes in NICU, Trauma, Oncology. Has 7 years experience.

There is a HUGE difference between an answer being correct and a question being faulty. Answer correct = points back; faulty question = question tossed

There is a HUGE difference between an answer being correct and a question being faulty. Answer correct = points back; faulty question = question tossed

I agree with that 100%. I'm not arguing that. They even stated my answer was correct. I'll just post the question. The question was "Which class of medication inhibits gastric secretions by binding to the parietal cell?" And proton pump inhibitor and h2 antagonist were both answers, which are both correct. The PPI binds to an enzyme on the parietal cell and the h2 antagonist binds to the h2 receptor on the parietal cell.

DowntheRiver

Specializes in Urgent Care, Oncology. Has 7 years experience.

Tough call. This happens every semester at probably every nursing school. You can keep appealing or you can repeat.

Tough call. This happens every semester at probably every nursing school. You can keep appealing or you can repeat.

Yeah, if it was just repeating a class and graduating a semester late then I wouldn't be so bent out of shape. Its the fact that Instead of just failing one class that I was told originally I am not being told that she misinformed me and I am in fact failing 2 classes. Which means technically I am out of the program but can appeal to be let back in to finish my last semester. However NO WHERE in the syllabus/program handbook does it say they can fail you in a class that you did not even take the exam in to begin with! Makes no sense and I'm just frustrated at the lack of organization/understanding of the staffs own policy and procedures. They just make up the rules as they go it seems..

Just a thought --- we are required to pass a Med test every semester as well... Like you we have 2 attempts.. If we do not pass the exam we are not allowed into any clinical course regardless of the class that may have administered the exam.

For your class -- since both MedSurg and your internship are both clinical components this is probably why you are not allowed to continue with either class.

Best of luck.

NurseGirl525, ASN, RN

Specializes in ICU.

Those are not both the answer on that question. I had that exact same question on one of my pharm tests. Plus, how does a 78.9 equal an 80? That's over a point off. Most programs do not round. And if I failed the first time, I would have made sure that I passed the second time and not by a narrow margin where you think rounding is going to help.

In nursing school this happens a lot where 2 answers can be right. My philosophy is don't put your grade in jeopardy to the point where it's left up to a decision made by the instructor. Kind of like in boxing, never leave the decisions up to the judges.

You failed this test 2 times. On the off chance your school does round and they somehow throw out the question the best you can hope for is a 79.

NurseGirl525, ASN, RN

Specializes in ICU.

Ok, I just reread your post. You said a 78.9 does not help you. Sorry about that. But I do know those are not both the answer because it was a question I did miss. I'm not sure if it was med/surg or pharm. those topics overlapped in both classes. If I remember correctly it's the H2. The ppi inhibits that pump in the stomach not allowing the hydrochloric acid in. I could be wrong on that because my brain is on summer break. Lol

windsurfer8, BSN

Specializes in Psych/Military Nursing. Has 14 years experience.

What does "valid documentation from several sources" even mean? It sounds like a lot of other students got the answer correct so why did you not? If you graduate and sit for the NCLEX you won't be arguing answers with the NCLEX. Do not spend hours ruminating over an answer. You appeal and if they say no you move on. More concerning is when you are constantly on the razors edge you stand the chance of these things happening. Study more...7 days a week if you have to. If you simply are unable to get higher than an 80% then you will have to be prepared for the flip of the coin not coming up heads every time. Good luck.

BuckyBadgerRN, ASN, RN

Specializes in HH, Peds, Rehab, Clinical. Has 4 years experience.

We had 3 pharm math quizzes with each clinical rotation. Six clinicals means 18 math tests. You had to pass them all at 80%. If you didn't, you could take a makeup quiz, but that one HAD to be 100%. Failing those quizzes meant you failed the entire clinical. Two fails classes/clinicals meant you were out of the program, no appeals.

Because I've been on AN long enough to know that some people will focus on OP's underlying academic issues, my disclaimer here is that I'm going to answer without regard to OP's performance in general, and just focus on the issue of awarding points fairly on a given exam.

PP is right that your instructor indeed cannot talk with you about another student's test. To do so would violate that student's educational privacy. However, you can discuss the implication of a tossed question on the rest of the class in general.

OP, the only hope I can think of for you is if your instructor is going to throw out a question on the exam because she has deemed it a faulty question (rather than believing you having a second correct answer), then you need to ask if she plans to truly throw out the question. Because, from where I'm sitting, if you're throwing out the question, then you need to go over EVERYONE'S test, and throw it out completely because the question is faulty. This means there are probably some people in the class who passed, but who would now be failing if there were no points awarded for that question. Is the professor willing to deal with that mess?

As things stand now, it sounds like the instructor's solution would be that OP would have her question tossed, but someone who got the first correct answer would continue to benefit from the points that go with the question. Ergo, the question isn't actually being tossed if people with one correct answer get points and people with another correct answer do not. OP, you can absolutely discuss this with your professor without violating anyone else's privacy.

mrsboots87

Specializes in Neuro, Telemetry. Has 6 years experience.

Because I've been on AN long enough to know that some people will focus on OP's underlying academic issues, my disclaimer here is that I'm going to answer without regard to OP's performance in general, and just focus on the issue of awarding points fairly on a given exam.

PP is right that your instructor indeed cannot talk with you about another student's test. To do so would violate that student's educational privacy. However, you can discuss the implication of a tossed question on the rest of the class in general.

OP, the only hope I can think of for you is if your instructor is going to throw out a question on the exam because she has deemed it a faulty question (rather than believing you having a second correct answer), then you need to ask if she plans to truly throw out the question. Because, from where I'm sitting, if you're throwing out the question, then you need to go over EVERYONE'S test, and throw it out completely because the question is faulty. This means there are probably some people in the class who passed, but who would now be failing if there were no points awarded for that question. Is the professor willing to deal with that mess?

As things stand now, it sounds like the instructor's solution would be that OP would have her question tossed, but someone who got the first correct answer would continue to benefit from the points that go with the question. Ergo, the question isn't actually being tossed if people with one correct answer get points and people with another correct answer do not. OP, you can absolutely discuss this with your professor without violating anyone else's privacy.

Very nice loophole (for lack of a better word). OP, I think this will be your best bet with the disputed question. PP makes a great point in that it truly would be completely unfair and likely against school policy to throw out a question for only a select few students. And by throwing out the question for the whole class, those who scored an 80% have now failed. I can imagine an instructor not wanting to have to contact students who thought they passed and deal with the backlash of telling them they actually failed.

NICUmiiki, BSN, RN

Specializes in NICU/PICU Flight Nursing. Has 6 years experience.

I think that if a question is worded in a way that it can be interpreted different ways and yield different 'correct' answers, then the question is faulty and should be thrown out. I'm sorry that ends up the same way for you.

I do think that two F's is harsh though. We had to take a dosage calc (not pharm) test every semester and get 100% on it. If you didn't, you were withdrawn from the classes that semester. You did have to leave both classes since they are always coreqs, and you can't take one without being enrolled in or already having credit for the other.

Thank you for all your input. I should have been more clear on my main concern. My concern is that I'm failing 2 classes. We have always had a separate med calc and pharm exam for every course that had a clinical (I know every school is different). But thats how it's always been for us. What isn't making sense is how you can fail me in BOTH classes, however we have some students that decided to split this semester up, and are only taking internship, and are not even in med surg, therefor, they didn't take the exam at all. It's just very unorganized and frustrated how they do things.

Whispera, MSN, RN

Specializes in psych, addictions, hospice, education.

It sounds like the reason two classes were involved is that they were co-requisites. They have to be taken together. So, if one class is failed, the other is done too...and both need to be retaken at the same time if the student continues. This happens alot with theory and clinical courses for the same specialty.

i think the person who initially told you you had only failed one course just made a mistake, and when she found her mistake, she corrected it. What's your school's policy on such things? You should have a copy of the school's handbook, either in paper or online form. If what happened is according to policy, there's nothing you can do. If it's not..then maybe you have a case.

Is internship the clinical part of the med surg part? If so, often the clinical must either be taken after or at the same time as the lecture part of a course. If those students already took med surg, they already took the pharm test. they don't need to do it again. It depends on the school. Again, refer to your school's policy.

It sounds like the reason two classes were involved is that they were co-requisites. They have to be taken together. So, if one class is failed, the other is done too...and both need to be retaken at the same time if the student continues. This happens alot with theory and clinical courses for the same specialty.

i think the person who initially told you you had only failed one course just made a mistake, and when she found her mistake, she corrected it. What's your school's policy on such things? You should have a copy of the school's handbook, either in paper or online form. If what happened is according to policy, there's nothing you can do. If it's not..then maybe you have a case.

Is internship the clinical part of the med surg part? If so, often the clinical must either be taken after or at the same time as the lecture part of a course. If those students already took med surg, they already took the pharm test. they don't need to do it again. It depends on the school. Again, refer to your school's policy.

No, they are not co-reqs (refer to my post just before yours); and we have student's that are taking internship and not even taking med surg. So they didn't even take the exams. So it just doesn't make much sense, at all.