I have been working at my current workplace, a hospital downtown, for a little over a year now as full-time. As of Monday I will transfer to part-time because I am starting a new job closer to home. Both managers are aware.
This afternoon I received a phone call from my current manager scheduling a meeting with her, human resources and a union representative on Monday. She would not give me any details except that it was SERIOUS, which is what worries me most, and she would pay me for my time (odd but nice). I asked if it was about a patient (which is my #1 concern) and she said no. But that's all she would tell me. I know this will be at the back of my mind all weekend long, stressing me out! This is the first time I've been asked to come in on my day off and meet with people other than her. Any ideas what it could be about?
Although I don't think this behind the reason and if it was I will tell her the truth. I called in sick yesterday. I don't call in often ... maybe a handful the entire year. This time it was legitimate, I had schedule conflicts at both workplaces and couldn't find anyone to pick-up my shift. It left me with no choice. I can't be at 2 places at once. I called in really early so they a good amount of time to call or a replacement.
Of course I will not ask HR. I will ask a trusted friend who happens to do the payroll.
Uh, I hope this won't be a repeat of what happened before. Remember, you told one person and the whole department knew your business.
It's unfortunate what happened, but please know that your situation has informed a lot us newbies. I really wish you well and I pray your license will not be affected in the least.
Uh, I hope this won't be a repeat of what happened before. Remember, you told one person and the whole department knew your business.
It's unfortunate what happened, but please know that your situation has informed a lot us newbies. I really wish you well and I pray your license will not be affected in the least.
I won't get into details with her but just ask her as general questions since she is more knowledgeable in that area.
That disturbs me that a professional governing body could discipline someone over a labor issue rather than a practice issue. It seems to me like hospitals could use this to exercise absolute authority over its employees, off-duty as well as on.
I live in a right-to-work state where unions are nonexistent BTW, but I've never heard of anyone turned in to the BON for calling in sick if they weren't. If that were the case, the Board of Nursing and the State Health Department (which certifies CNAs) would be doing nothing but disciplinary hearings all day long.
The issue isn't that she called in sick when she wasn't.
The issue is that she received sick pay from one hospital while geting paid for working from another.
Funding for hospitals in Ont is different from the states. All money comes from the government. And the current government is pushing for hospitals to present "balanced budgets" - a near impossibility. Sick time, even one or two days can really effect a units budget. How was meadow replaced? Did someone have to be paid overtime to cover her "sick"day? If so - that also effects that budget. Many units work on very tight budgets and it doesn't take much to destroy it.
I'm not saying that I agree that Meadow should lose her license, in fact, I doubt that the CNO will be that drastic - those who lose their licenses usually have been doing something like this for years not just once.
Meadow - just tell the truth, tell them what you have learned, what you would have done diffently and show remorse!
The issue isn't that she called in sick when she wasn't.
The issue is that she received sick pay from one hospital while geting paid for working from another.
Funding for hospitals in Ont is different from the states. All money comes from the government. And the current government is pushing for hospitals to present "balanced budgets" - a near impossibility. Sick time, even one or two days can really effect a units budget. How was meadow replaced? Did someone have to be paid overtime to cover her "sick"day? If so - that also effects that budget. Many units work on very tight budgets and it doesn't take much to destroy it.
I'm not saying that I agree that Meadow should lose her license, in fact, I doubt that the CNO will be that drastic - those who lose their licenses usually have been doing something like this for years not just once.
Meadow - just tell the truth, tell them what you have learned, what you would have done diffently and show remorse!
Yes I understand. I later learned that she replaced me with a senoir staff member (they have more seniority and get called first to replace sick calls) and he was paid OT. I am sure she wasn't too pleased about that.
of course i will not ask hr. i will ask a trusted friend who happens to do the payroll.
hi..i am not sure i would even trust a friend in payroll,...bc this is a threat to your livelihood. i would just mail it to them in a letter that had to be signed for and put on the mailing label that they had to sign for
" to : x hospital
attn : payroll dept
refund of funds paid to employee in error
1203 main street
ontario canada "
bc....i too once believed that people would always do the right thing....friends or not.......but then i grew up. i hope things go well for you.
I want to preface this post by saying that my state is not a union state so keep that in mind when reading my reply.
I have been a manager more than once. Usually whenever one of my nurses called in I had the less than enviable result of having to pull the shift myself if I couldn't get a volunteer or a PRN person to cover. Did my staff sometimes take unnecessary sick time? Sure they did but I could understand why they did. Did most of my staff work 2 or more jobs? Again sure they did and I understand why they did. Have I had to terminate someone for a sustained pattern of abuse of paid sick time? Yes I have.
However I really feel that the OPs NM could have called her into the office, counseled the OP as to what the NM found out and given the OP the opportunity to decline paid time for the day she called off. The NM could also have used this time as an opportunity to explain to the OP why her choice was a poor one. The NM could even have discussed if the OP wanted to move up her effective date of resignation.
End result? No fraudelent monies out of the units budget, a better informed newbie nurse and hopefully a soon-to- be-former employee who could carry that example of how to manage something without making a mountain out of a molehill with her as her career progresses. It has been my experience that when a supervisor allows themselves to feel they are in a power struggle with their staff nothing good results. I am confident enough in myself that I don't need to prove my power to my staff. Whenever we lose sight of each others basic humanity it never turns out well for anyone.
To the OP I hope all goes well with you at your hearing. Remember we all make mistakes and this one does not invalidate your worth as either a person or a nurse.
Excellent post, Tex! Just what I would/have done myself.
Meadow - thank you so much for posting your experience, and I really hope it works out for you. I'm newer than you are, and while I haven't done it, I never would have thought the legal definition of "fraud" included calling in sick when you weren't. For anyone else with experience here - does ANY sick call when you aren't actually ill yourself constitute fraud as well? Maybe your kid is sick and your spouse is out of town? Calling in because you're too tired, hungover, or need a mental health day? Calling in to participate in another activity you aren't getting paid for? I would never advocate making a habit of doing any of these things, and I've never been one to call in to any job unless necessary, I was just hoping we could all learn from this thread what is and is not grounds for termination. What if you call in, and are sick, but are seen by a coworker at the grocery store buying yourself chicken soup? I've had jobs where sick calls were not allowed without the obligatory doctor's note - does a professional job like nursing really require the same?
Yes to all of those
Maybe it was a stupid move on my part, but I let her know all these concerns when she pulled me into her office one day and asked why I was leaving aside from being closer to home. So its a possibility she had a grudge, bringing up problems on the floor really is a reflection on her job performance right? I thought I was doing her a favor, letting her know the junior perspective and maybe she would have an idea as to why we are so unhappy and work towards a solution. But maybe she took it personally. If she can give feedback on our performance, she should be able to take it.
Yes, yes, yes and yes! Some of these women are evil .... I've worked with them and I know!
You'll be okay, meadow. You are a newbie and this is your 'first offence'. I am pretty sure that the worst you will get a reprimand. Don't let it worry you! And God bless - you sound like a lovely, caring and compassionate nurse. They didn't deserve you anyway.
As I said before - just put it down to experierence, shake the dust off and don't look back.
Specializes in ER, ICU, Neuro, Ortho, Med/Surg, Travele.
I have to say that it has been quite interesting reading all of the comments. Meadow, I just want to say that I hope everything has worked out for you. The comments on what and what does not constitute fraud have been interesting to say the least. From my perspective it's really simple. 1. Your union rep didn't do his job. I live with an ex teamster and bottom line, he/she is there to FIGHT for you. That's why you pay dues.
2. I have been in the health care industry in one capacity or another since I was 19 years old, I have yet to meet 1 person you hasn't called out sick for one reason or another that didn't pertain to illness. None of us are perfect and all of us have had issues, both big and small, that effect how we have to handle our jobs. Sometimes we have to use sick days for things that come up. All we can do is the best that we can. I hope your new job is working out and you are happy. Time and distance from your old job will eventually but everything into it's proper place. We can't walk in your shoes we can only walk beside you and help you along the way.
I have been reading this thread for a while now. While I agree that meadow did the wrong thing, I don't think she did it out of spite, simply ignorance. I don't believe the manager was wrong scheduling a meeting about the issue (the see you monday was a bit mean though) this could have been a good opportunity for meadow an this manager to discuss the difficulties she's been having with handling two rosters and working something out to the benefit of both parties. Instead they have fired you and reported you to the boards which IMHO is extreme and serves no purpose except making an inexperience nurse consider leaving a profession that is so short staffed.
I don't know what the boards are like in Canada but if their anything like our boards in Australia you'll get a slap on the wrist and possibly a fine. I doubt they'd remove your licence and if their reasonable they will take your nursing inexperience into account and treat this like a lesson learned.
Best of luck in the future meadow, hopefully you'll be able to juggle working two different jobs a bit better from now on.
I have been reading this thread for a while now. While I agree that meadow did the wrong thing, I don't think she did it out of spite, simply ignorance. I don't believe the manager was wrong scheduling a meeting about the issue (the see you monday was a bit mean though) this could have been a good opportunity for meadow an this manager to discuss the difficulties she's been having with handling two rosters and working something out to the benefit of both parties. Instead they have fired you and reported you to the boards which IMHO is extreme and serves no purpose except making an inexperience nurse consider leaving a profession that is so short staffed.
I don't know what the boards are like in Canada but if their anything like our boards in Australia you'll get a slap on the wrist and possibly a fine. I doubt they'd remove your licence and if their reasonable they will take your nursing inexperience into account and treat this like a lesson learned.
Best of luck in the future meadow, hopefully you'll be able to juggle working two different jobs a bit better from now on.
I will never put myself in that situation again. It has caused me enough grief. I will stick to 1 job so I can commit to it 100% and continue doing my best as a person and a nurse ...
I will never put myself in that situation again. It has caused me enough grief. I will stick to 1 job so I can commit to it 100% and continue doing my best as a person and a nurse ...
You know? The more I read this thread, the more I am sickened by the direction this world we live in is heading. I need to stop reading this thread. This is basically everything that is wrong with the world that we live in, summed up in the (respectfully, I certainly hope you get my drift) naive and innocent actions of someone trying to do the right thing, but being sacrificed for the pleasure and profit of her "superiors". She will come out of this experience smarter? Yes. Wiser? Yes. Cynical? Likely, and rightly so. Who loses? Well, she does, her family does, and patients do. We all do. we are all going to be patients one day, whether or not we like it. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Laugh because I can do nothing about it, or cry for the future of health, and the death of an art. I guess I got sentimental.
txredhead - I loved your post!! You hit the nail on the head! My dh is an RN also, and he has been mgmt for a long time, since 1989 or so. He is a diplomat and level headed. His staff members have always liked working for him, he has been fair, no matter what the circumstances.
He read this thread with me and his opinion was, well, actually 2 points -
1..txredhead has got to be a born supervisor or manager.
2. he thought you hit the mark with your advice
I don't live in a unionized state (Louisiana) and could not even fathom if it is better to be in a union or not. What has stuck out in my head is that surely she doesn't hundreds of little "Nancy nurse" types. I can't believe that meadow is the ONLY employee that has done this before. I know that this post is not talking about any other employees and it doesn't impact meadows case, but...
I have been in basically the same position as meadow, just for something a little different, but I can relate to her, as that I was kept in the dark for over a week when I had to meet with the administration and HR and I was "roasted over hot coals, until I finally just stood up and (halfway politely!) that I was not going to listen to any more of that----- and called my attorney in the doorway of their meeting room. They had been going around behind my back (I had lost a pet and had 6 regular days off in a row) digging through the charts of the patients that I had been caring for.) What had they been looking for, another nurse had complained to the nurse manager that she believed that I had falselessly document on the pain scale that we use for pain management. I didn't, I ask the patient, and the answer they give is what I go by, and they wanted me to change it. I've never been accused of something like that, in my 17 years of nursing. When I refused, I was terminated, not a big loss for me because it was a crappy place to work, and I had also already found another facility and had just put in my 4 week notice. The facility where I had been accused is not for profit church based and tried to keep the "good guy" reputation. They liked to talk the talk but couldn't walk he walk, so to speak. They even threatened to report me to BON because I had refused to BACK CHARTING AND CHANGED MY PAIN SCALE NUMBER so mine would "match" the other nurse's r/t the fact that the other nurse was a friend of the nurse manager. I told them no and walked out knowing that I had not done anything wrong.
I was glad to see that there are other nurse or management that have your attitude and compassion. Thank you for that!
You know? The more I read this thread, the more I am sickened by the direction this world we live in is heading. I need to stop reading this thread. This is basically everything that is wrong with the world that we live in, summed up in the (respectfully, I certainly hope you get my drift) naive and innocent actions of someone trying to do the right thing, but being sacrificed for the pleasure and profit of her "superiors". She will come out of this experience smarter? Yes. Wiser? Yes. Cynical? Likely, and rightly so. Who loses? Well, she does, her family does, and patients do. We all do. we are all going to be patients one day, whether or not we like it. I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Laugh because I can do nothing about it, or cry for the future of health, and the death of an art. I guess I got sentimental.
woknblues - You are right. The most positive thing meadows can come out of this with is a cynical mind, so to speak, because of the crap she has been dealt, and that aint so great! I know it happened to me.
And, you are right - sooner or later, we will be patients someday.
:banghead:
zahryia, LPN
537 Posts
Uh, I hope this won't be a repeat of what happened before. Remember, you told one person and the whole department knew your business.
It's unfortunate what happened, but please know that your situation has informed a lot us newbies. I really wish you well and I pray your license will not be affected in the least.