I have been working at my current workplace, a hospital downtown, for a little over a year now as full-time. As of Monday I will transfer to part-time because I am starting a new job closer to home. Both managers are aware.
This afternoon I received a phone call from my current manager scheduling a meeting with her, human resources and a union representative on Monday. She would not give me any details except that it was SERIOUS, which is what worries me most, and she would pay me for my time (odd but nice). I asked if it was about a patient (which is my #1 concern) and she said no. But that's all she would tell me. I know this will be at the back of my mind all weekend long, stressing me out! This is the first time I've been asked to come in on my day off and meet with people other than her. Any ideas what it could be about?
Although I don't think this behind the reason and if it was I will tell her the truth. I called in sick yesterday. I don't call in often ... maybe a handful the entire year. This time it was legitimate, I had schedule conflicts at both workplaces and couldn't find anyone to pick-up my shift. It left me with no choice. I can't be at 2 places at once. I called in really early so they a good amount of time to call or a replacement.
I know exactly how you feel as I had to put in a grievance against my boss and have basically spent the last 2 years stressed to hell because of how I was treated,and how I continued to be treated by H.R. and management.I was regularly told that I had a meeting on the Monday on a friday and spent all weekend worrying myself sick as they wouldnt elaborate. Sometimes I had to wait weeks until I was told anything.This is absolutely not on and goes against the employers "Duty of Care" to their employee.Get them told!
:heartbeatIn the meantime try not to stress "Worry is like a Rocking Horse,it keeps you busy,but gets you nowhere"
i still think this is ridiculous. this....is simple...if the op does not accept money for the sick time.....then she/he didnt benefit from it and it is not fraud. she could have been sick....then felt better enough to make it in time for the second job. do you really think the college will want to be burdened over this if she/he the op ....doesnt accept monies for sick time.do you?????i dont think so....i may be wrong....but i think not
Specializes in CVICU, Burns, Trauma, BMT, Infection control.
It sounds like the Canadian 'College' is extremely strict. In my state this would strictly be an employee/employer issue, with perhaps a union rep mediating.
It sounds to me like the OP was naive about the ramifications of this situation, is totally open to imput, and should never have been terminated without having had a chance to be counseled, after having received a warning. She's a young nurse, for goodness sakes! To be summarily fired for this is really unfortunate!
I'm sorry to hear about this Meadow,I've been following this thread. You sound like a caring and good nurse.We all make mistakes. Please just accept this as a learning experience and go on. Try not to let it upset you too much in the long run. [[[HUGS]]]
Meadow - thank you so much for posting your experience, and I really hope it works out for you. I'm newer than you are, and while I haven't done it, I never would have thought the legal definition of "fraud" included calling in sick when you weren't. For anyone else with experience here - does ANY sick call when you aren't actually ill yourself constitute fraud as well? Maybe your kid is sick and your spouse is out of town? Calling in because you're too tired, hungover, or need a mental health day? Calling in to participate in another activity you aren't getting paid for? I would never advocate making a habit of doing any of these things, and I've never been one to call in to any job unless necessary, I was just hoping we could all learn from this thread what is and is not grounds for termination. What if you call in, and are sick, but are seen by a coworker at the grocery store buying yourself chicken soup? I've had jobs where sick calls were not allowed without the obligatory doctor's note - does a professional job like nursing really require the same?
Meadow - thank you so much for posting your experience, and I really hope it works out for you. I'm newer than you are, and while I haven't done it, I never would have thought the legal definition of "fraud" included calling in sick when you weren't. For anyone else with experience here - does ANY sick call when you aren't actually ill yourself constitute fraud as well? Maybe your kid is sick and your spouse is out of town? Calling in because you're too tired, hungover, or need a mental health day? Calling in to participate in another activity you aren't getting paid for? I would never advocate making a habit of doing any of these things, and I've never been one to call in to any job unless necessary, I was just hoping we could all learn from this thread what is and is not grounds for termination. What if you call in, and are sick, but are seen by a coworker at the grocery store buying yourself chicken soup? I've had jobs where sick calls were not allowed without the obligatory doctor's note - does a professional job like nursing really require the same?
The answers to your questions lie in one's employer's policies and/or union contract.
If you consider that "sick time" is essentially insurance, it may be easier to understand why it is considered fraudulent to use it in an unauthorized manner. If your car is in good shape, but you go out and hit it with a sledgehammer in order to claim an accident and collect insurance money, you have committed fraud. The fraud lies in extracting money to compensate yourself for a loss that really didn't exist. Calling out sick when you're not is essentially the same thing.
Some employers allow the use of sick time to cover a child's illness, but not many. Most expect an employee to take a personal day, or call in absent and be unpaid for the lost time. You can easily check your employer's policy. Calling in sick due to a weather emergency is usually not allowed, either.
In general, I counseled my employees to call in sick if their physical and/or mental condition would prevent them from safely carrying out their job duties. That may be due to acute illness, lack of sleep, effects of drugs or alcohol, extreme mental stress.
Some employers do require a note from a healthcare practitioner when an RN or LPN calls in sick. I agree that such requirements are childish when associated with minor illness of short duration. (After all, we are trusted to assess and care for fragile patients, shouldn't we be allowed to do so for ourselves?) In my experience, these requirements stem from overly-controlling management or facilities with chronic absenteeism problems and sky-high sick time costs.
I want to preface this post by saying that my state is not a union state so keep that in mind when reading my reply.
I have been a manager more than once. Usually whenever one of my nurses called in I had the less than enviable result of having to pull the shift myself if I couldn't get a volunteer or a PRN person to cover. Did my staff sometimes take unnecessary sick time? Sure they did but I could understand why they did. Did most of my staff work 2 or more jobs? Again sure they did and I understand why they did. Have I had to terminate someone for a sustained pattern of abuse of paid sick time? Yes I have.
However I really feel that the OPs NM could have called her into the office, counseled the OP as to what the NM found out and given the OP the opportunity to decline paid time for the day she called off. The NM could also have used this time as an opportunity to explain to the OP why her choice was a poor one. The NM could even have discussed if the OP wanted to move up her effective date of resignation.
End result? No fraudelent monies out of the units budget, a better informed newbie nurse and hopefully a soon-to- be-former employee who could carry that example of how to manage something without making a mountain out of a molehill with her as her career progresses. It has been my experience that when a supervisor allows themselves to feel they are in a power struggle with their staff nothing good results. I am confident enough in myself that I don't need to prove my power to my staff. Whenever we lose sight of each others basic humanity it never turns out well for anyone.
To the OP I hope all goes well with you at your hearing. Remember we all make mistakes and this one does not invalidate your worth as either a person or a nurse.
I wish things had gone that way. I wish I had someone like you as a manager. Someone human.
My manager only has 2 years experience. Her main concern is the budget. We are constantly short-staffed and the board is always full. We get sick calls all the time. One weekend we had 6 sick calls! She made a pie chart and posted it up for all to see. The nurses are burnt-out. She only hires junior staff to save money, yet we dont get the support we need. All the junoirs work the end of the week when the complex surgeries are performed and we had a TL that was not very supportive for the longest time. Anyways, my NM books a lot of agency staff that are not prepared to handle such a busy ward. Our nurses have to pick up the slack, they get frustrated and the patients get frustrated. She is more concerned with discharging patients ASAP to accommodate the surgeons and their complex post-op patients than our workloads.
I thought she was on our side, the nurses, but really she isn't. She doesn't care about the patients or nurses. She says she knows how we feel because she used to be a bedside nurse too, but really she doesn't. She only wants to please her own boss. Not being there for the unit.
Maybe it was a stupid move on my part, but I let her know all these concerns when she pulled me into her office one day and asked why I was leaving aside from being closer to home. So its a possibility she had a grudge, bringing up problems on the floor really is a reflection on her job performance right? I thought I was doing her a favor, letting her know the junior perspective and maybe she would have an idea as to why we are so unhappy and work towards a solution. But maybe she took it personally. If she can give feedback on our performance, she should be able to take it.
I read an article on Workopolis one day that said if you were unhappy with your workplace, you should stay and try to work with your boss to make changes instead of quitting. You know figure out why people are quitting and then make some changes, instead of just ignoring it and hiring new people.
If I don't lose my license, I'd like to pursue a career with the union and actually help nurses when they are in need or becoming a manager someday and doing things differently. Being there for my nurses.
good luck with whatever path you choose,...but please do not allow that facility to pay you for that sick time.....if you do allow them to pay you 4 the sick time ....well that is a slippery slope that could be looked upon as fraud......so....my advice is dont! good luck...and keep us posted as to how they handle your final pay and what u choose to do
good luck with whatever path you choose,...but please do not allow that facility to pay you for that sick time.....if you do allow them to pay you 4 the sick time ....well that is a slippery slope that could be looked upon as fraud......so....my advice is dont! good luck...and keep us posted as to how they handle your final pay and what u choose to do
yes i am going to ask if that is possible. i do not want that money. i wish we had "mental health days" or "personal days". maybe we have something like that that i am not aware of. i will ask about that too.
Where I work we have 37.5 hours/year for "family sick". So if your spouse, kids, whomever in your family is sick, you can use that bank instead of your personal sick time.
The last hospital I worked at allowed 3 personal days/ year which you were encouraged to use.
Specializes in LTC/SNF, Psychiatric, Pharmaceutical.
It sounds like the Canadian 'College' is extremely strict. In my state this would strictly be an employee/employer issue, with perhaps a union rep mediating.
It sounds to me like the OP was naive about the ramifications of this situation, is totally open to imput, and should never have been terminated without having had a chance to be counseled, after having received a warning. She's a young nurse, for goodness sakes! To be summarily fired for this is really unfortunate!
That disturbs me that a professional governing body could discipline someone over a labor issue rather than a practice issue. It seems to me like hospitals could use this to exercise absolute authority over its employees, off-duty as well as on.
I live in a right-to-work state where unions are nonexistent BTW, but I've never heard of anyone turned in to the BON for calling in sick if they weren't. If that were the case, the Board of Nursing and the State Health Department (which certifies CNAs) would be doing nothing but disciplinary hearings all day long.
yes i am going to ask if that is possible. i do not want that money. i wish we had "mental health days" or "personal days". maybe we have something like that that i am not aware of. i will ask about that too.
even if they do pay you.....you must immediately send a registered letter to payroll with a cashiers check for the refund of the money. you have to be able to show that you did not benefit from this if you are ever audited by the college. also...good luck with everything........and just move on. chances are that nothing will come of it, but i would advise against "asking about" anything with that hr dept. just look at your check and make sure they did not pay you....if they did.....reiomburse them....silently....with a letter and non refundable check!
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munki32
6 Posts
I know exactly how you feel as I had to put in a grievance against my boss and have basically spent the last 2 years stressed to hell because of how I was treated,and how I continued to be treated by H.R. and management.I was regularly told that I had a meeting on the Monday on a friday and spent all weekend worrying myself sick as they wouldnt elaborate. Sometimes I had to wait weeks until I was told anything.This is absolutely not on and goes against the employers "Duty of Care" to their employee.Get them told!
:heartbeatIn the meantime try not to stress "Worry is like a Rocking Horse,it keeps you busy,but gets you nowhere"