Salaried Staff Nurses?

Published

Hey, so last night I was at work and alot of the staff nurses were talking about a rumor that some hospitals, in an effort to save money, are switching bedside nurses from an hourly salary to a yearly salary instead. Does anyone know if any hospitals are actually doing this? I can't imagine this being well received by nursing, let along practical.

Specializes in MDS/Office.

So........Would the facilities who put nurses on salary significantly increase the hourly wage to compensate nurses for being salary? Also, I'm thinking their might be certain requirements to be met before putting employees on salary. This would be a labor law question. :rolleyes:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU / PCU / Telemetry / Oncology.
I wonder how many lawyers etc punch a time clock like we do.

There are indeed lawyers that punch clocks and get paid hourly, particularly in the legal temp world with class action cases requiring many short-term workers (and short-term sometimes means a couple of years). I know because I was once one of them. The hourly pay is quite attractive and assignments vary in paying flat-rate overtime or time and a half overtime. It's a big business, particularly in cities like New York and San Francisco.

Anyway, back to topic! :coollook:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in multispecialty ICU, SICU including CV.

The entire VA system of staff nurses is salaried. It works fine. If you are going to stay over, you need to get OT approval from the NM if she is there or the supervisor (e.g. if there is a code at the end of your shift and you are finishing up paperwork, etc.) If you screw off and don't get your paperwork done and are still there at 5 pm after an 8 hour day shift, nobody is going to pay you for that. All our staff education is on the clock as well.

If we report off and are done with our work, we are free to leave a few minutes before our shift ends without having to worry about missing 15 minutes of pay for clocking out 8 minutes early. Same goes the other way -- if we are 5 minutes late for our shift, we still get paid. I actually think it works better. We have all adopted a sense of responsibility for the hours we are supposed to work. We all get here on time and let the offgoing shift leave a little early if we can, and we expect that the next shift will get here on time for report (and generally, they do) so we can leave on time, as well. We don't have the problem of the nurse that chronically clocks in at 7:07 and leaves at 3:23 and pisses everybody off and makes her whole paycheck.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

Some random thoughts:

This is a loaded topic because legally, nurses are not entitled to OT pay. (References to OT pay means time-and-a-half. An employer has the option of paying exempt employees for extra hours - including at straight pay - but they do not have to).

According to the Fair Labor Standards Act, we are considered exempt from minimum wage and overtime provisions, due to the fact that we are considered 'professionals', based on several tests they use to determine same.

http://www.hr.ucdavis.edu/salary/comp/Fair_Labor_Standards_Act

(While I do believe that we are 'professionals', I do not agree with the classification based on this test; specifically "The work product is predominantly intellectual and varied in character and cannot be standardized in relation to a given period of time").

Back in the mid 90s, the hospital I worked at arbitrarily quit paying OT and much to my surprise, people just accepted it. Of course, they were less inclined to work extras, which was to the detriment of patient care. (Interestingly, when asked, the CNO stated they we were one of many hospitals in the area with this pay practice. I called every hospital in the area. She was lying. We were the only one doing so).

I have read of cases where exempt status was contested and the decision was based on the fact that the plaintiff's pay stub indicated hourly wage.

Changes were made to the FLSA during one of the Bush administrations and there were protests from various professions, including nursing, because it was felt that the new law would have a negative impact. In response, a certain HR VP from a large healthcare system wrote that (staff) nurses had always been considered exempt but they were paid OT because it was the right thing to do.

Another issue that I wonder about is the 'completion' factor. As someone stated above, bedside nursing care never ends. So, does that mean the employer could make you stay indefinitely but only pay you for your 'scheduled' shift? (Obviously not, but I think you see my point).

Bottom line: re-read dthfytr's 09:17 post and be very concerned. By law, this could become the norm.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Pediatric/Adolescent, Med-Surg.
Hospitals in El Paso tried it. They made it all a one way deal, though. You got salary, nothing extra for overtime or mandatory meetings, and you had to use comp time if you were out. It only took 2 months before every meeting or class became mandatory and people were spending 7 days per week at work. It amounted to a considerable cut in pay, and nurses started quitting en mass to go work for hourly pay elsewhere. The hospitals went back to hourly pay in 6 months. I don't mind salary in theory, but this was flagrant abuse.

That sounds terrible!! The one thought I've had that as a PRN staff member, how would I get a salaried position? I may work 1 day one week and 3 the next!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical Care.
Haven't heard of anybody trying that.

Nurses are always talking about how they are professionals. In a lot of the business world "professional" equates to salaried and it means that you work (without overtime) until you get the job done. I wonder how many lawyers etc punch a time clock like we do. After switching to nursing from my "professional" job, I've always though it's a good thing being an hourly paid laborer who gets over time.

Lawyers don't punch a time clock, BUT they get to bill for each hour that they work. Sounds a little like hourly pay to me. Of course, their pay is MUCH more than mine. :lol2:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Pediatric/Adolescent, Med-Surg.
The entire VA system of staff nurses is salaried. It works fine. If you are going to stay over, you need to get OT approval from the NM if she is there or the supervisor (e.g. if there is a code at the end of your shift and you are finishing up paperwork, etc.) If you screw off and don't get your paperwork done and are still there at 5 pm after an 8 hour day shift, nobody is going to pay you for that. All our staff education is on the clock as well.

If we report off and are done with our work, we are free to leave a few minutes before our shift ends without having to worry about missing 15 minutes of pay for clocking out 8 minutes early. Same goes the other way -- if we are 5 minutes late for our shift, we still get paid. I actually think it works better. We have all adopted a sense of responsibility for the hours we are supposed to work. We all get here on time and let the offgoing shift leave a little early if we can, and we expect that the next shift will get here on time for report (and generally, they do) so we can leave on time, as well. We don't have the problem of the nurse that chronically clocks in at 7:07 and leaves at 3:23 and pisses everybody off and makes her whole paycheck.

Wow, I had no idea the VA was salaried! It's good to hear that the salary model can work so well on a big scale.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU / PCU / Telemetry / Oncology.
Lawyers don't punch a time clock, BUT they get to bill for each hour that they work. Sounds a little like hourly pay to me. Of course, their pay is MUCH more than mine. :lol2:

Someone failed to read my prior post about lawyers that DO punch timeclocks! :uhoh3:

Not all lawyers make $200/hr! Piggybacking on my prior post, some lawyers work contractually on large-scale document production cases and the hourly rates vary dramatically. From as low as $20/hr to $35/hr on average for these jobs. Some pay a little more if you know a specified foreign language and can read documents in that language. Employment agencies that pimp out these lawyers do often charge law firms twice that amount, and law firms in turn charge the client even more than that, so people are making money down the line. Granted, these temp lawyers work lots of hours, but in the long run it's pure burnout and life outside becomes more valuable than the nice paycheck. I should know, that was my world for 2 years.

And most are lucky to have an assignment that lasts for years, most assignments end after a few weeks or a couple of months max. And they work with no benefits. Months can go by without a call as well. So, in the grand scheme, you may very well make MUCH more than some of these lawyers.

Hence my transition to the nursing field (and that's only one of many reasons) ... :up: If I come off a little defensive, it's because I am leaving a profession that has a prototype with which I never identified.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Critical Care.
Someone failed to read my prior post about lawyers that DO punch timeclocks! :uhoh3:

Not all lawyers make $200/hr! Piggybacking on my prior post, some lawyers work contractually on large-scale document production cases and the hourly rates vary dramatically. From as low as $20/hr to $35/hr on average for these jobs. Some pay a little more if you know a specified foreign language and can read documents in that language. Employment agencies that pimp out these lawyers do often charge law firms twice that amount, and law firms in turn charge the client even more than that, so people are making money down the line. Granted, these temp lawyers work lots of hours, but in the long run it's pure burnout and life outside becomes more valuable than the nice paycheck. I should know, that was my world for 2 years.

And most are lucky to have an assignment that lasts for years, most assignments end after a few weeks or a couple of months max. And they work with no benefits. Months can go by without a call as well. So, in the grand scheme, you may very well make MUCH more than some of these lawyers.

Hence my transition to the nursing field (and that's only one of many reasons) ... :up: If I come off a little defensive, it's because I am leaving a profession that has a prototype with which I never identified.

Sorrrry.:uhoh3:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med-Surg, Oncology, Neurology, Rehab.
Hey, so last night I was at work and alot of the staff nurses were talking about a rumor that some hospitals, in an effort to save money, are switching bedside nurses from an hourly salary to a yearly salary instead. Does anyone know if any hospitals are actually doing this? I can't imagine this being well received by nursing, let along practical.

I suppose in this economy anything is possible. Here in Northern California can you believe that at one point some years ago hospitals were actually hiring Medical Assistants to take the place of RN's. The unioin took this to court and the the RN's got their jobs back, so right now I am sure management is thinking up all kinds of things to "get by", who knows what they have in store:confused:

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Haven't heard of anybody trying that.

Nurses are always talking about how they are professionals. In a lot of the business world "professional" equates to salaried and it means that you work (without overtime) until you get the job done. I wonder how many lawyers etc punch a time clock like we do. After switching to nursing from my "professional" job, I've always though it's a good thing being an hourly paid laborer who gets over time.

A lot of "Professionals" may be salaried, but they also make more than nurses AND they get bonuses and many more fringe benefits. I don't think my hospital is gonna offer a company vehicle and a credit card to charge my business lunches and give me other free perks. Also, those other professionals have much more freedom in how and when they accomplish things. They can prioritize and work on things at home or over the weekend if they need to. In nursing you can't make your own call on when and how things will be done. You can't take your work home with you. And things need to be done within a specified amount of time. Nurses are professionals, but should never have to work on salary.

I do have on question about salaries though, many types of salaried people are in fact entitled to overtime (according to NYS DOL). There are some specific things that have to be true about your job in order to get overtime, but I wonder: If nurses were to become salaried, would they still be eligible for overtime?

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in being a Credible Source.
Wow, I had no idea the VA was salaried! It's good to hear that the salary model can work so well on a big scale.

Of course, you're talking about government employees with civil-service protections. Very different than at-will employees working at profit-driven institutions.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion