Rumors and who's in charge??

Cruella de ville · Jun 23, 2017

CapeCodMermaid, I only know you through your posts here on all nurses and I have always felt like you were the kind of manager or DON that I would like to work for.

That being said, the last statement you wrote about resonates with me. At my last job our nursing managment was very handsome off and most of us felt like there were unrealistic expectations of the floor/charge nurses.

We were told it was our job to write up the LPNs and CNAs.

Now this is only my opinion and I don't know what you are actually like as a supervisor, but my frustration with that system was that these were my co-workers and friends and I worked with them day in and day out, if I saw an immediate problem I was the type to just address it on the spot without making a big deal about most issues.

But for serious offenses I felt like it was our DONs responsibility to handle. I needed to maintain a working relationship with my co-workers and it seemed to us like she was taking the easy way out by having us handle all discipline.

Again, this is probably not what you are asking of your staff, just wanted to give you some other perspective.

CapeCodMermaid, RN · Jun 23, 2017

I expect my charge nurses to be in charge of their half of the floor. Waiting until I come up on the floor undermines their authority

Dawnkeibals · Jun 25, 2017

If I didn't know any better I would think my manager wrote this post. Recently my shift started out with a CNA disputing her hall assignment. Another nurse called the manager regarding the situation and the manager ended up changing the assignment. People were still unhappy. That day our shift ended with all the nurses on our unit being called into the mangers office and we were told we need to "take charge of the unit." It got me thinking about ways to do so. I don't know if this is something you have done or would consider doing. I am sorry you're dealing with this.

In your example above regarding the CNA refusing her assignment, what would you do as the charge nurse? I am asking this genuinely and honestly. I have not been a nurse that long. I agree with Cruella, I have read many of your posts and you seem like someone I would like to work for/with.

CapeCodMermaid, RN · Jun 25, 2017

I've been a charge nurse (I've been in the business so long, I've been everything, including an aide). I always made it clear to the CNAs that I was responsible for the unit, or my side of the hall. If they didn't do what I asked, I'd ask again, and then I'd explain about insubordination and how being insubordinate was on the top of the list of the reasons you could get fired. Only once in all these years has a CNA refused to do something I asked. We had meetings once a week and the CNAs rotated attending. They were boring meetings and no one wanted to go, but it was the policy. So this one CNA refused to go. I asked her again and she said she would swap with someone. It wasn't that big a deal so I said "OK, as long as someone from the unit goes." Ten minutes later, I see one of her residents walking down the hall in a johnny pooping on the floor every 5 feet or so (It was a dementia unit). I called the aide over and pointed at the poop piles because on this unit, the nursing staff had to clean up poop. She looked at it, looked at me, looked at the poop one more time and said, "I should have done what you said...I should have gone to the meeting." After that, no one ever refused an assignment. We laughed about it and I helped her clean up the resident.

Maybe it's years of experience, maybe it's the approach, maybe it's back up from upper management or lack of it.

No Stars In My Eyes · Jun 25, 2017

Later in the day I heard that I yelled at 3 CNAs and the nurse. Been a nurse since dinosaurs roamed the Earth and have never raised my voice.
Then I heard I wrote up every nurse and CNA on that floor. THEN I heard there was going to be a 'walk out' because the nurses don't want to be in charge of anything.
Again I ask what is wrong with people?!?
End of rant.

Rumors...

In college, my best friend discovered over summer break that she was lesbian. That fall, because we still hung out together (we made each other laugh like total lunatics) there were rumors on campus that we had locked ourselves in one of the dorm bathrooms and took a shower together..."someone" had heard us "making noise". ?????

There is no lock on the bathroom doors, I was house-and-dog-sitting for an instructor 8 miles away from campus, I prefer to shower alone, and most importantly I was a supportive friend who wasn't inclined the way she was, but didn't care that she was 'that way' .(You didn't say the "L" word out loud at that time)

What is wrong with people? Ain't THAT the $64,000 question!

amoLucia · Jun 25, 2017

Another dinosaur here, but now retired.

I can speak from experience that when you've been 'shot down' or otherwise unsupported by higher uppers, you'll be very selective about which future battles/tasks to fight.

I undertook supervisory actions in situations where I acted as I saw fit based on circumstances. Then my actions were negated, either overtly or covertly, by management/administration. It DID NOT FEEL GOOD!!! And it makes one doubt their own decision-making capabilities or if management/admin will or will not support them in the future.

Lots of DONs pay lip-service to their nurses for their supervisory and disciplinary responsibilities. And many staff have no education or training to do so. So it's often like walking on jello for those nurses.

In your past postings here, I felt you did a super nice job empowering and supporting your staff to do their best. I admired that. But not many facilities/nurses have had your type of leadership. So less has been expected of so many other staff that they DON'T produce as you're used to. But I do agree with you. They ARE capable of doing more. But why should they?

You're the NEW guy, so it's likely that they'll resist you. You've been bouncing around lately, so I hope things will work out for you.

cyc0sys · Jun 27, 2017

I feel your pain. I've written people up for every thing from dereliction of duty to insubordination to no avail. I reported CNAs and nurses for working under the influence and nothing happened until the patients complained.

One particular day I was playing hide and seek with a CNA I'd previously written up for abandoning her shift. I called the DON and she said "write her up". I explained that I didn't have the time to complete paperwork that wasn't going to be addressed. She said "what do you expect me to do?". I said, fire her. She said, "i can't do it because we're short". I told the DON I'd do it if she didn't. She said "you can't do that, only corporate can".

Long story short, the same CNA shows up 2 hours late a few days later. No call. I called the DON. She says, "tell her she no longer works here". I said, "so now you want me to fire her. Ok". Then I hung up and fired her.

Sometimes you just have to do the dirty work because management doesn't want to be the bad actor. I'd rather be short then babysit.

kbrn2002, ADN, RN · Jun 29, 2017

If I didn't know any better I would think my manager wrote this post. Recently my shift started out with a CNA disputing her hall assignment. Another nurse called the manager regarding the situation and the manager ended up changing the assignment. People were still unhappy. That day our shift ended with all the nurses on our unit being called into the mangers office and we were told we need to "take charge of the unit." It got me thinking about ways to do so. I don't know if this is something you have done or would consider doing. I am sorry you're dealing with this.
In your example above regarding the CNA refusing her assignment, what would you do as the charge nurse? I am asking this genuinely and honestly. I have not been a nurse that long. I agree with Cruella, I have read many of your posts and you seem like someone I would like to work for/with.

A valid question and one that's not easy to answer. I've been a nurse supervisor for years which is the same as charge, just different terminology. Under previous management being charge actually meant something and any disciplinary action initiated by a shift supervisor was followed up on.

Now with staffing being what it is (that is consistently short) unless something truly inexcusable happens there is zero consequence. CNA's call in way beyond what is allowed by our own policies and frequently show up late or leave early. Job duties aren't performed, assignments are refused, insubordination is the rule rather than the exception. Charge nurses have no power and initiating a write up that never gets followed up on is a frustrating waste of time that further undermines what small amount of respect the "supervisor" title holds.

Sorry for that rant but I know I can't be the only one in that situation. As far as OP's issue, I'm familiar with CapeCop's postings from years on AN and I wish more management showed her sensibility. Being rather new to the facility it'll take some time and consistently showing staff that she'll back them up to earn that trust from her charge nurses. When they realize that their decisions as charge are supported maybe they'll be more willing to make those decisions.

No Stars In My Eyes · Jun 29, 2017

Once, two other CG's decided they didn't like me (because the patient did) and every week they would call in complaints about me. Stupid complaints, at that.

I was the one who went to the doc with him, and the doc said to me that whatever I was doing for this pt, to do MORE of it, that he had improved a lot since his last visit six months ago (before I started working with him) that the pt had come out of his shell, initiating conversation and laughing, interested in life again in his mid- 90's.

Supervisor did not know about the above comment by the doctor.

Anyway, a comment was made to me by this 3 months newly employed supervisor at my company. She said she didn't know what *I *was doing to get those other CG's all riled up, but to "cut it out!" When I opened my mouth to say something, before I even began speaking, the supervisor said to me, "I don't want to hear it!" (WOW!)

It boggled my mind and half-laughing, I said, "What, you'd rather I just take a Xanax and shut up?"

"Well, no, but . . ." (great comeback isn't it; that was her whole entire response!)

I said, "You need to sit down and let me talk, and listen to me."

Being about 25 yrs older than her, with an excellent reputation and seniority, I could get away with that. I said it reasonably and mildly, not implying anything, just wanting at least to have my 'side' of the story told.

I also had invited the company's owner, and the office manager to sit in. I said my piece, and the owner and manager said they'd known me a long time (I had taken care of a parent of each of them) and they were inclined to believe me.

She was a little irritated by the whole thing, but still, I told her that what she should do is come with the pt and me to the next doctor's appointment, and then she would know who was riling things up at the pt's home. So she did.

She said she wanted to talk to the doc alone, so I went out in the hallway. She left after saying goodbye to the doctor and the patient, but not me. When I went back in to get the pt ready to go home, the doctor said, "What is HER problem?"

He said she had a few very mixed up ideas about my pt and did not seem to know him very well. He said he'd told her an earful, singing my praises and exclaiming about the remarkable changes that had come over my patient, specifying all the ways he was better.

But after that whole episode, the thing that struck me most was when she said, "I don't want to HEAR about it!"

We had a cautious and civil relationship after that. For one, I didn't trust her to be there for me. And while she didn't avoid me, she rarely sought to make contact except when she had to. So, I'm not sure, but I think what the doctor told her was kind of deflating. She went in there bristling, bound and determined to ... I don't know what, maybe deflate me? It didn't work.

She was my supervisor for several years, and when I heard she'd FINALLY left, I almost gave a party.

CapeCodMermaid, RN · Jul 17, 2017

The latest rumor is that I have NO license and one of the nurses is going to call DPH and report me! If only these nurses spent as much time on patient care as they did trying to besmirch my reputation.

GrandmaSqueak · Aug 24, 2017

A CNA once accused me of yelling at her. I calmly told her that I did not yell. She told me that I yelled even when I was whispering. I think she was commenting on my assertive nature!