Need all of your input before possibly my last shift here today:
My hospital is about 4-5 blocks from the gulf and right in the path of Rita which is currently 170-175 mph winds.
They keep reporting on TV how the hospitals here are evacuating which they are, our last patient was air lifted out last night.
But...they are making us stay here and ride it out for the stragglers who didn't follow the mandatory evacuation.
We have absolutely no patients in this hospital but they refuse to close it and are keeping our ER open which consequently means that we need OR, ICU, etc. beds open as well.
The storm surge is expected to be quite high.
I'm thinking of leaving here today after my shift is over and evacuating and will probably get fired.
Someone posted a link to this discussion on an email list, and I've been following along for the last couple of days.
If I were in the position of the OP, I would have left, and then returned as soon as possible after the storm passed.
If residents think there is a hospital open close to them then they might stay when they shouldn't. That's why they evacuate the fire department- to drive home the fact that EVERYONE (including you:) ) needs to leave.
Excellent point! I can just hear the reasoning of citizens who don't want to evacuate: "After all, Doctors and Nurses are supposed to be smart people, and if they aren't leaving, then things must not be as bad as we're being told."
In a situation like this, if I participated in keeping an empty hospital open, I would feel that I might be contributing to any injuries or deaths suffered by folks who were lulled into a false sense of security by my/our actions and elected to not evacuate. {One of these days, some smart lawyer out there will sue a hospital (and the employees who stayed) on that very basis. And they'll probably win.}
I also went back and read all the posts made by the OP. He never stated what city he lived in nor what hospital he worked at. You asked him if he was in Galveston and he never answered your question that I can find. He simply states that "My hospital is about 4-5 blocks from the gulf and right in the path of Rita" which could be any number of places. I belive that you are taking liberties in assuming that he is in Galveston and that you know what hospital he is in as you are speaking of what the officials in his area are saying.
You beat me to it! LOL! As interesting as this thread has been, I probably still wouldn't have bothered to register, but I did so just so I could post pretty much exactly what you just posted. {{{Sigh}}}
What hospital do you work at? I'm at TGH, right on the water!
Isn't TGH a Level I trauma center?
I dabbled a little in Emergency Management before my current job and computer-generated scenarios have TGH and half of Tampa proper under water in a Cat 3.
The pictures they showed us of Pinellas County were even more frightening, along with the sobering thought that it might not be possible to evac the entire county.
So I think every county is different, and the lesson here is for those of you who want to stay and ride it out, get the proper information and training from Red Cross Disaster Training Courses and your county Emergency Management Team.
As for me, I'll be happy to help with the cleanup afterward. I really don't see how much help I can be since I'm not an ER nurse and would have no access to emergency medications, tests or treatments in the event of a power outage.
For those of you near the water, it might be important to know where your facility's generators are located as it appears that Katrina caused generator failure with the flooding, and so rendered quite a few hospitals powerless, quite literally, and that's how many of the victims perished.
Grannynurse, you're welcome to stay, but I stand by what I said. If there's one lesson to take home here, it would certainly be that experience in 'canes is not a great qualifier. Just because you rode out Charley, or the No-Name Storm, or any number of others, does not in any way prepare you for what could've happened in a different storm. Charley was a tight, fast-moving wind-maker that didn't create a lot of storm surge, so it really doesn't compare to a Katrina whose strength was measured in the Top Five.
But if you stay, I would highly recommend taking a few courses from the Red Cross Disaster Training and from your county Emergency Management team. If that doesn't open your eyes to the reality of what can and has happened, then nothing will.
But if you stay, I would highly recommend taking a few courses from the Red Cross Disaster Training and from your county Emergency Management team. If that doesn't open your eyes to the reality of what can and has happened, then nothing will.
Good advice. I went to work when Charley was supposed to hit us. I can see the water from my unit. But because we sit up on a hill and are a level II trauma center we stay open. I can only imagine if a massive storm surge hit in a Cat 5 what kind of shape we'd be in. But I'd personally be safer there than at my house which is a block from the water and not up on a hill. So it's always off to work for me.
Why is everyone believing that a hospital would leave it's property and staff unsecured? There are several patients, still at the facility, despite what the nurse who orginally posted otherwise. And what facility would leave its valuable property unsecured. Does everyone think they just got out and left the doors unlocked?
Grannynurse
Well of course the hospital isn't leaving its doors wide open. There's a difference in being unlocked and unsecure. I guess I need to say that by unsecure it is meant that the staff who remain in the hospital have very little protection should a violent incident/fire/internal disaster occur. If those who remain in the area do so "at their own peril", then that includes the staff in the hospital as well. That makes for an unsecure environment, and as has already been pointed out, we all know that the first priority is to ensure we are practicing in safe conditions.
I'd like to redirect and say that my thoughts are with the OP. I hope you are safe and well, and please post a new thread to let us know you are okay and that the decision you made was the right one- not for all of us, but for you.
It is my understanding, according to the physician in charge (and who remained) that the facility had three patients who could not be moved. Second, yes staff has a responsibility to secure one's self. They were apparently not asked to stay in their homes but to report to EOC Center or their facility, so that is a moot point. Despite the tragedies that hit New Orleans facilities, not one staff member lost their life or suffered a life threatening injury, unless you are aware of something.
It is yours and others take that it is sheer insanity to remain behind. Even if it was empty, which it was not, once the hurricane has passed, there are still those who remained behind. Does one think that these people could not, would not need a hospital's ER? And forget about air lifting the injuried out, you have the 'cane' heading inland. You have already evacuated the air craft, which takes time to reposition. What do you suggest be done? Tell the fools, they are fools for the most part, who remained behind and may need medical help, sorry you will have to wait??? You remained at your own risk. That may be a satisfactory answer for some and that may be their sense of commitment, it is not mine. I would evacuate my family but would stay if asked.
There is a lot of talk, here in Charlotte County, about the impact of Karina and Rita, and one's responsibility towards one's job and community, especially in healthcare and law enforcement. Most of those who are talking about 'getting out od Dodge' are in the 20s and 30s. Those that are willing to stay, in their 40s and 50s. Fortunately, for my county, the police, fire and healthcare professionals did not cut and run. They recognized their comittment to their professions, the community and their fellowman. And fortunately for Galvestan, Houston and other parts, their healthcare professionals, fire and police also did not cut and run, did not put their personal safety before their professional obligations.
Grannynurse
First I would like to say that you have a more noble and unselfish attitude than I do; just basing this reply on what the OP said in her post, that her statements are indeed the truth at her facility, I would not have stayed. Once our obligation to the patients in house was satisfied--moved them to safety--I would feel no obligation to those folks who decided to "ride it out". I don't believe I'm supposed to suffer the consequences of their foolish decision. I earnestly hope and pray that I never find myself in a situation that forces me to choose between putting my life at grave risk, and remaining "on the job".
And for the record, I am a seasoned nurse of the baby boomer generation, in my mid-50's. I guess there is something wrong with me. I respect and honor sacrifice, especially those that our parents made in their generation. But not needlessly, for the "job".
I dabbled a little in Emergency Management before my current job and computer-generated scenarios have TGH and half of Tampa proper under water in a Cat 3.
The pictures they showed us of Pinellas County were even more frightening, along with the sobering thought that it might not be possible to evac the entire county.
So I think every county is different, and the lesson here is for those of you who want to stay and ride it out, get the proper information and training from Red Cross Disaster Training Courses and your county Emergency Management Team.
As for me, I'll be happy to help with the cleanup afterward. I really don't see how much help I can be since I'm not an ER nurse and would have no access to emergency medications, tests or treatments in the event of a power outage.
For those of you near the water, it might be important to know where your facility's generators are located as it appears that Katrina caused generator failure with the flooding, and so rendered quite a few hospitals powerless, quite literally, and that's how many of the victims perished.
Grannynurse, you're welcome to stay, but I stand by what I said. If there's one lesson to take home here, it would certainly be that experience in 'canes is not a great qualifier. Just because you rode out Charley, or the No-Name Storm, or any number of others, does not in any way prepare you for what could've happened in a different storm. Charley was a tight, fast-moving wind-maker that didn't create a lot of storm surge, so it really doesn't compare to a Katrina whose strength was measured in the Top Five.
But if you stay, I would highly recommend taking a few courses from the Red Cross Disaster Training and from your county Emergency Management team. If that doesn't open your eyes to the reality of what can and has happened, then nothing will.
I would love to run the DVD concerning the small amount of damage, that seems to be implied. And I am sure that those who lost their homes or suffered such damage they were or are still living in FEMA trailers, would really appreciate some's take on the damage Charlotte County suffered. And our students, from the seven destroyed schools, really love going to class in portables. It is amazing what a tight, fast moving wind maker like Charlie did to my community. Granted most of the property, that was severely damaged, was built prior to Andrew but then neither was New Orleans, prior to Katrina. And the damage done to them was done to flooding not the winds from Cat 5 Katrina.
I am not recommending nor would I stay if a manadtory evacuation were ordered. However, if I were employed at Peace River Medical Center or Fawcett, in the ER or ICU (which I was) and was asked or ordered to stay, I would. The premise that people stay because medical help will be available is faulty on its own. People who refuse to leave refuse for a variety of reasons. And I've never heard one say they stayed because they knew medical help would be available post hurricane. A number of people, who refused to leave, refused because of a pet. Others because of a lack of transportation. And still others to protect their property. Stupid, silly people, aren't they. We should just evacuate and leave them to their own devices. Leave a skeletal police presence, get the fire and health care out of dodge.
My commitment to my community and my profession is just a bit different then yours. I went in and was trapped by one of the worst snow storms, in the Northeast. I worked, during both of the blackouts, in NYC. And I woke up and was temporarily trapped by the "No Name Storm" (yes, it came in without warning and trapped quite a few people, darn GD for building homes in flood areas). I evacuated to just outside Charlotte County and was still hit by Cat 2-3 portions of Charlie. Like I said, my commitment is different. And I wouldn't follow the advice of our Emergency Management, they completely blew it with Charlie, including loss of their own building. And the Head needs to take some more courses in emergency management. As for the Red Cross, no thanks, I do not need any more courses in political correctness, which is about all they are good for but feel free to follow them.
First I would like to say that you have a more noble and unselfish attitude than I do; just basing this reply on what the OP said in her post, that her statements are indeed the truth at her facility, I would not have stayed. Once our obligation to the patients in house was satisfied--moved them to safety--I would feel no obligation to those folks who decided to "ride it out". I don't believe I'm supposed to suffer the consequences of their foolish decision. I earnestly hope and pray that I never find myself in a situation that forces me to choose between putting my life at grave risk, and remaining "on the job".
And for the record, I am a seasoned nurse of the baby boomer generation, in my mid-50's. I guess there is something wrong with me. I respect and honor sacrifice, especially those that our parents made in their generation. But not needlessly, for the "job".
And I am 60, just outside the cuspid of being a baby boomer. Perhaps my sense of commitment is built on my own life's experiences. And perhaps it is due to working primarily with those less forunate then myself, education, life style, occupation wise. I am not advocating that everyone stay, heavens no. I want my daughter and her family out of harms way as well. I am only saying, that if I was deemed essential, I would stay. I would get my family out but I would stay, in the safest area I could find, generally my local healthcare facility. If one has a skill, that would be needed immediately, then one has an obligation, in my estimation.
I just wonder how the woman, who suffered burns in Galvestan, would have felt, being told that there was no medical care available because the firemen and hospital had evacuated. She didn't have to find out, did she?
And I am 60, just outside the cuspid of being a baby boomer. Perhaps my sense of commitment is built on my own life's experiences. And perhaps it is due to working primarily with those less forunate then myself, education, life style, occupation wise. I am not advocating that everyone stay, heavens no. I want my daughter and her family out of harms way as well. I am only saying, that if I was deemed essential, I would stay. I would get my family out but I would stay, in the safest area I could find, generally my local healthcare facility. If one has a skill, that would be needed immediately, then one has an obligation, in my estimation.
I just wonder how the woman, who suffered burns in Galvestan, would have felt, being told that there was no medical care available because the firemen and hospital had evacuated. She didn't have to find out, did she?
Grannynurse
I respect your feelings on this, I really do. I can tell that you feel a strong moral obligation to be available to help others. You mentioned your daughter; if she were a nurse, and in this OP's position, would you feel this strongly about her obligation to stay? I know that I wouldn't want any of my family members to; and I should make clear, that I think there's a difference in staying when there's a real need, as in, there are still patients in the hospital, and in staying when there are no patients, and you are only putting yourself in harm's way for those who "might" need help, who didn't follow mandatory evacuation orders.
Let me say that I think that staying in a hospital as a staff nurse under the above circumstances while under a mandatory evacuation is not for general staff.
If you are the CEO, top administrator, Director of Nursing, staff Directors than by all means you also have the responsiblity and expertise to take care of patients. It is NOT just the staff's responsibility. The main responsibility lies with administration of whatever specialty. Volunteers only should have been asked for, end of discussion. If you are an administrator of an area and do not know how to take care of the patients in your area then you should NOT be an administrator either.
In a life/death situations unless you are specially trained federal/state national guard, army/navy/etc. civilian employees should be expected to evacute. Who determines life/death situations----why you do of course, it is your life !!!!! Not theirs !!!!
I respect your feelings on this, I really do. I can tell that you feel a strong moral obligation to be available to help others. You mentioned your daughter; if she were a nurse, and in this OP's position, would you feel this strongly about her obligation to stay? I know that I wouldn't want any of my family members to; and I should make clear, that I think there's a difference in staying when there's a real need, as in, there are still patients in the hospital, and in staying when there are no patients, and you are only putting yourself in harm's way for those who "might" need help, who didn't follow mandatory evacuation orders.
To answer your question, no my daughter is not a nurse. She is considered in the public safety portion of her county. And none were mandated to remain, by the county. Hospital staff was asked to report, prior to landfall, to the two open facilities. And, it was my understanding that the hospital, on Galvestan, was not empty. I have a question. What would you think of police officers and firemen who remain behind, after their town had been completely evacuated? Would you think they were taking unnecessary risks and putting themselves in harms way?
Grannynurse, I'm just curious. During the blackouts and snowstorms you endured were there looters with guns and knives in your hospital? Were people getting carjacked who tried to evacuate the city? Just wondering?
Let me say that I think that staying in a hospital as a staff nurse under the above circumstances while under a mandatory evacuation is not for general staff.
If you are the CEO, top administrator, Director of Nursing, staff Directors than by all means you also have the responsiblity and expertise to take care of patients. It is NOT just the staff's responsibility. The main responsibility lies with administration of whatever specialty. Volunteers only should have been asked for, end of discussion. If you are an administrator of an area and do not know how to take care of the patients in your area then you should NOT be an administrator either.
In a life/death situations unless you are specially trained federal/state national guard, army/navy/etc. civilian employees should be expected to evacute. Who determines life/death situations----why you do of course, it is your life !!!!! Not theirs !!!!
Must be the six years I put into the Air National Guard.
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Slave_to_Cats
2 Posts
Someone posted a link to this discussion on an email list, and I've been following along for the last couple of days.
If I were in the position of the OP, I would have left, and then returned as soon as possible after the storm passed.
Excellent point! I can just hear the reasoning of citizens who don't want to evacuate: "After all, Doctors and Nurses are supposed to be smart people, and if they aren't leaving, then things must not be as bad as we're being told."In a situation like this, if I participated in keeping an empty hospital open, I would feel that I might be contributing to any injuries or deaths suffered by folks who were lulled into a false sense of security by my/our actions and elected to not evacuate. {One of these days, some smart lawyer out there will sue a hospital (and the employees who stayed) on that very basis. And they'll probably win.}
You beat me to it! LOL! As interesting as this thread has been, I probably still wouldn't have bothered to register, but I did so just so I could post pretty much exactly what you just posted. {{{Sigh}}}