Repeated threat relayed by elementary student??

scuba nurse, BSN, MSN, RN · Nov 7, 2022

Do you have a SAC or counselor? I would talk with them and have them talk to the student.

k1p1ssk, BSN, RN · Nov 7, 2022

Even if they are nothing but pleasant on the phone, who knows what the parent could be doing at home. Abuse is easy to hide. It is odd that the student is reporting that the parent will beat you up as well unless this is a massive cry for help and the kiddo thinks that you will take it more seriously if your own safety is at risk. I agree that this needs a more thorough investigation though, and getting the adjustment counselor involved is a good first step.

It's either that or file on your own - repeated threats of harm against a child could be considered verbal abuse. Harder to do anything about it from DCF/CPS' standpoint because it is a he said/she said thing, but at least you know it will get screened and if it is unfounded, hopefully the kid will realize the gravity of lying about that type of thing.

nursekoll, BSN, RN · Nov 9, 2022

Thanks for your input! I have involved school counselor and school psych in this as well. Hopefully we can all work together to find the root of this issue!

allnurses Guide · Nov 14, 2022

Are you not a mandated reporter? In California it would be incumbant on a nurse hearing this to report suspected abuse to the appropriate child protection agency. It doesn't have to be proven just suspected. For every time this is passed upstream (To principal) a chance is missed to help this child. If it is nothing an investigation will prove that.

Hppy

beachynurse, ASN, BSN · Nov 14, 2022

On 11/7/2022 at 12:28 PM, nursekoll said:

How serious would you take a threat reported by an elementary student that is a frequent flyer? This kid has now told me twice on two different occasions that the parent has threatened to "beat him up and beat up the nurse too" if the student comes in to see the nurse at school. This kid comes in frequently and I only call home if I have concerns that are urgent or unresolved from last visit or if the kid meets criteria to be sent home. I have never noticed bruises or other signs of abuse at home and parent has not ever been unpleasant or threatening on the phone or when picking up student in the past. I have informed the principal both times that I have heard student report the threats. I'm not sure if this kid just likes the attention or what? What would you do??

If you look at everything you wrote, I might call the parent and talk to them. You don't really have what it takes to make a CPS report as there are no injuries to the student, and the threat has not been carried out. It may be that the child, with being as you say a "frequent flyer" it may be that the parents are saying that to keep him out of the clinic for unnecessary visits. While I don't agree with the parents approach if this is in fact what is happening, especially if you are saying that the parents are always pleasant, and not threatening, I would call the parents before doing anything..

beachynurse, ASN, BSN · Nov 14, 2022

47 minutes ago, hppygr8ful said:

Are you not a mandated reporter? In California it would be incumbent on a nurse hearing this to report suspected abuse to the appropriate child protection agency. It doesn't have to be proven just suspected. For every time this is passed upstream (To principal) a chance is missed to help this child. If it is nothing an investigation will prove that.

Hppy

In looking at the information provided, I wouldn't have enough to make a Child Protective Services referral. There needs to be visible injuries, and or some form of neglect before they will do anything, at least in VA. I personally am seeing this from a different standpoint. I might be in a High School, but I started in an Elementary. I can easily see a parent of a frequent flyer saying that to a kid to keep them away from the clinic. If the kid is really just coming to see the nurse, just to see her because the likes her, the parent may add the nurse to the equation to again, keep them out of the clinic so often. The nurse may only call for certain things, but the kid is probably going home and telling the parents that they are going to the clinic on days when she does not call. To be clear- I do not condone , or think this is appropriate, but it does and can happen.

NutmeggeRN, BSN · Nov 14, 2022

In the end, it is not ours to investigate but to report. Let the proper authorities do the decision making.

beachynurse, ASN, BSN · Nov 14, 2022

2 hours ago, NutmeggeRN said:

In the end, it is not ours to investigate but to report. Let the proper authorities do the decision making.

In true cases of suspected abuse yes. I have a friend that is a CPS worker, and she said based on the information, this wouldn't qualify as a referral and it would not be taken. She said that without any real concrete evidence, she agrees with the school nurse calling the parents first, and it's most likely a ploy to keep the student out of the clinic and in class.

allnurses Guide · Nov 15, 2022

While requirements to report may be different depending on the state and in California it's absolutely nuts we are still charged with a duty to protect children and report suspected abuse. Then let the authorities investigate and determine if actual abuse has occurred. As a pediatric and adolescent psych nurse I have had to file reports for suspected abuse which later turned out to be unfounded. In my state the first person who hears to allegation must report it and there is no handing it off to another party (Supervisor, risk manager etc...) California does allow you to consult with an investigator to see if a report is warranted. If after hearing the details CPS declines to investigate then I document such and my job is done. I would not be able to live with myself if I failed to report and a child was hurt or god forbid killed due to my inaction. Again and this is specific to California a mandated reporter can face both civil and criminal penalties for failing to report SUSPECTED abuse. I am not going to sacrifice my home, my profession or my freedom because I wasn't sure the abuse had actually occurred.

I would also like to note that my view may also be influenced by the fact that I am an adult survivor of battery by an adult (My mother. She never left a bruise or mark on me or any of my siblings but the scars run deep. I wish someone had been willing to act on our behalf. My mother was perfectly pleasant and always showed approriate concern when the school called for anything. She was a piller of the church and always gave to charity. She was still a horrible person. My siblings and I lived in terror through all our formative years and my mother died believing she was the world's greatest parent.

So if I suspect that something is not right I report. Sometimes we are the only thing that stands between a child and their abuser.

Hppy

NutmeggeRN, BSN · Nov 15, 2022

10 hours ago, hppygr8ful said:

I would also like to note that my view may also be influenced by the fact that I am an adult survivor of battery by an adult (My mother. She never left a bruise or mark on me or any of my siblings but the scars run deep. I wish someone had been willing to act on our behalf. My mother was perfectly pleasant and always showed approriate concern when the school called for anything. She was a piller of the church and always gave to charity. She was still a horrible person. My siblings and I lived in terror through all our formative years and my mother died believing she was the world's greatest parent.

So if I suspect that something is not right I report. Sometimes we are the only thing that stands between a child and their abuser.

Hppy

I am so sorry to hear that. Those wounds run long and deep. ((big hugs))

beachynurse, ASN, BSN · Nov 15, 2022

11 hours ago, hppygr8ful said:

While requirements to report may be different depending on the state and in California it's absolutely nuts we are still charged with a duty to protect children and report suspected abuse. Then let the authorities investigate and determine if actual abuse has occurred. As a pediatric and adolescent psych nurse I have had to file reports for suspected abuse which later turned out to be unfounded. In my state the first person who hears to allegation must report it and there is no handing it off to another party (Supervisor, risk manager etc...) California does allow you to consult with an investigator to see if a report is warranted. If after hearing the details CPS declines to investigate then I document such and my job is done. I would not be able to live with myself if I failed to report and a child was hurt or god forbid killed due to my inaction. Again and this is specific to California a mandated reporter can face both civil and criminal penalties for failing to report SUSPECTED abuse. I am not going to sacrifice my home, my profession or my freedom because I wasn't sure the abuse had actually occurred.

I would also like to note that my view may also be influenced by the fact that I am an adult survivor of battery by an adult (My mother. She never left a bruise or mark on me or any of my siblings but the scars run deep. I wish someone had been willing to act on our behalf. My mother was perfectly pleasant and always showed approriate concern when the school called for anything. She was a piller of the church and always gave to charity. She was still a horrible person. My siblings and I lived in terror through all our formative years and my mother died believing she was the world's greatest parent.

So if I suspect that something is not right I report. Sometimes we are the only thing that stands between a child and their abuser.

Hppy

I can empathize, I am the victim of Domestic Abuse. The situation was not pretty I can tell you. Bad experiences with calling the police for help.. I am also not going to take chances, because I got totally screwed by the people I called for help. But, I also realize that there are things that happen that my response and actions may be clouded by my own experiences and have to be careful to push them aside. I also don't want to make a report that may cause harm to a parents profession or reputation if it is not a true suspected abuse case. I have also seen students that use abuse as a weapon against their parents. It's not pretty when the reports come back unfounded and you find out the kid made up the story. Kids today can be hateful, and I have seen this kind of issue come up more than once. It's so sad for everyone.