Religion, culture and nursing

[raebabelvn]

Last night I was reading a thread about a Jehovah's Witness nurse. I found it fascinating! I read every single post. It got me thinking... what religions hinder full holistic nursing care? JW's have a thing against blood and blood products... do other religions have restrictions similar to that? I've always been interested in learning about other religions, and in lvn school we did a brief overview of it, but nothing in depth. Also, what religion are you? Are there certain procedures or practices in nursing and/or medicine that offend you or restrict the care you provide? Would you ever share your faith with your patients? Have you cared for patients of a religion that has restrictions? What about other cultures?

I myself am a Christian. I don't have any restrictions, but I have preferences. However, that wouldn't hinder patient care. I haven't taken care of a patient with religious restrictions just yet. And the only time I have talked about my faith with patients is if they initiate the conversation, and even then, I make sure I don't cross any boundary lines. I let them lead the conversation.

I'm curious and excited to learn more about this topic!

[BluegrassRN]

Edit: I'm not being argumentative, I want to know what the person in question is thinking. Is it anticancer agents with their side effects that's a problem, antibiotics, or any agent created in a lab period? If somebody does not want treatment, that is their decision; however, what is wrong in asking somebody on a public forum to define their rational and better define their stance?

Fair enough. It seems to me that you are being argumentative (pot, meet kettle at this point), because it seems so obvious to me what she means. Perhaps I've just known too many pagans and "natural" types.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I think using the words "utterly ridiculous" in reference to someone's beliefs is inflammatory and does not contribute positively in any way, shape, and form to a discussion. I don't think environment matters; if it's rude in a face-to-face discussion, it's rude on the internet. If the intent of the forum is simply to be rude buffoons who try to one-up each other in witty and unhelpful comments, fine, it's appropriate. If the intent of the forum is to create an environment conducive to discussing different situations and view points, then no, it's not appropriate.

No disrespect intended, but you are a complete idiot.

How would that phrase NOT be disrespectful? Writing the phrase "no disrespect intended" prior to writing something rude does not somehow lessen the rudeness.

A more appropriate use of the phrase could be "No disrespect intended, but I cannot agree with your belief system. I want to live, and in fact have fought cancer, 3 times, using standard chemotherapy. If I wouldn't have used the chemo, I would have left two young children motherless. "

Anyhow, I was just irritated by the idea that 1) If you use the phrase "no disrespect intended" you can say whatever rude, mean, or inappropriate thing you want to say and have it somehow be okay, and 2) it's okay to call someone's religious beliefs "utterly ridiculous", particularly when the pagan poster gave NO impression that she believed that everyone else should believe that too, or that she looked down upon those who did not follow her religion.

I guess it depends upon the intent. Do you really want to have a discussion, or do you just want to tell others what you think? Do you want to have some back and forth, or do you just want others to acknowledge your opinions as the only correct opinions? Is this a discussion board or a forum where anything goes?

I appreciate what you're saying. Lot's of people say things like "I'm sorry but......." when they are anything but sorry. Or say "not to be rude......." and then are totally rude. It bugs me to no end also.

I didn't mean to imply it was a positive statement designed to promote positive discussion.

I'll surrender that your rewrite of what is more appropriate to you is less rude sounding and I've already acknowledged that phrasing matters.

I agree with you more than disagree.

Still, rather than call the poster a rude buffoon (your words), I can take them at face value and believe that they really mean no disrespect and really think the posters beliefs are utterly ridiculous, especially considering modern chemotherapy saved her life. Just as another poster called religious beliefs "wacky" or "hindering of care", etc.

I don't think the intent of this post was discussion but to state his/her opinion. Sometimes we do that and don't invite back and forth discussion, especially in matters of religion and ethical beliefs......we think we are right...we state that, and then end the discussion. Nothing wrong with that on a discussion board either, happens all the time.

And no this is not a board where anything goes.

I also understand that regardless of intent it's how it's interpreted that matters most and we should phrase things with that in mind.

[GilaRRT]

Fair enough. It seems to me that you are being argumentative (pot, meet kettle at this point), because it seems so obvious to me what she means. Perhaps I've just known too many pagans and "natural" types.

I lived in Afghanistan and have familiarity with the culture; however, I would not be quick to call somebody argumentative because they could not wrap their head around an Afghan cultural concept that was obvious to me but not to said person. Again, I like to know where said person in this thread draws the line so to speak. Also, why do people draw the line, what motivates them and what is their rationale for doing so?

I lost a friend last week to cancer, he decided to quit chemotherapy and go au natural so to speak. He was tired of the therapy and against all advice, went another route. I can understand the aversion to the side effects of some of the medications, but would be interested in hearing other people's rationale.

[BluegrassRN]

I lived in Afghanistan and have familiarity with the culture; however, I would not be quick to call somebody argumentative because they could not wrap their head around an Afghan cultural concept that was obvious to me but not to said person.

Well, I don't *think* I live in a place where paganism/naturalism is the dominant culture; however, it's a liberal bastion in an extremely conservative area, and I'm guessing a lot of conservatives around here would think that we're all a bunch of naked hippies dancing in the woods praying to trees carved to look suspiciously like Obama. So who knows! I did work for a long time in a somewhat alternative setting (health clinic run by CNMs, attending birth center and home births), so I probably do have more familiarity with the natural crowd than your average joe. Sorry about that.

[BluegrassRN]

Still, rather than call the poster a rude buffoon (your words), I can take them at face value and believe that they really mean no disrespect and really think the posters beliefs are utterly ridiculous, especially considering modern chemotherapy saved her life. Just as another poster called religious beliefs "wacky" or "hindering of care", etc.

I didn't intend for it to come across as calling the poster a rude buffoon; rather, that the entire "no disrespect intended, but" + rude comment would be totally appropriate on a board full of rude buffoons trying to out-wit and one-up each other. For clarification, Nozyrozy40, I don't think you're a rude buffoon! I just took issue with the one comment.

It seems a common theme on the boards lately, this veiled or not so veiled intolerance for others' religion (including Christianity). And it's bothered me. This particular post on this particular thread, where Sharon points out the "vitriol" on another thread, just touched a nerve and I decided to post. It's just really bothered me a lot lately, that here of all places I see a lot of religious intolerance. Nurses get exposed to a wider part of the population than the average person, and I guess I just expect that exposure in general to lead to a little more tolerance, so it's always surprising and disappointing when you see it on a forum full of people for whom you have a lot of respect.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I didn't intend for it to come across as calling the poster a rude buffoon; rather, that the entire "no disrespect intended, but" + rude comment would be totally appropriate on a board full of rude buffoons trying to out-wit and one-up each other. For clarification, Nozyrozy40, I don't think you're a rude buffoon! I just took issue with the one comment.

It seems a common theme on the boards lately, this veiled or not so veiled intolerance for others' religion (including Christianity). And it's bothered me. This particular post on this particular thread, where Sharon points out the "vitriol" on another thread, just touched a nerve and I decided to post. It's just really bothered me a lot lately, that here of all places I see a lot of religious intolerance. Nurses get exposed to a wider part of the population than the average person, and I guess I just expect that exposure in general to lead to a little more tolerance, so it's always surprising and disappointing when you see it on a forum full of people for whom you have a lot of respect.

I understand completely what you're saying and appreciate it. I do also agree with you.

Except I don't see it as a common theme here, but more of a sometimes thing....sometimes it's more prevalent than others....maybe it's because I have super thick skin and I'm not afraid to jump in and tell people when I'm having issues with them, that I don't think it's the dominating theme.

Also, I understand that sometimes we're just going to have to step on each other's toes because "tolerance" means too much of a compromise of a belief system and we can't be that politically correct. But appreciate your point that there is a way to do it and a way not to.

[RNGrammie]

Truly, I did not mean any disprespect to KarmaWiseRaven. Had we been speaking face to face I would have stated.....That is utterly ridiculous to her statement of "not looking for options". If you had appendicitis would you not accept the option of an appendectomy?? Would you suffer w/ the gallstones when there are proven treatments available?? Not accept treatment for the broken hip, leg or arm because it might be "my time to go"? Would it be "my time to go" if I were diagnosed w/ diabetes?? I don't think so and I would tell someone they were ridiculous (maybe use different verbage) for not changing their diet..excercising and/or using insulin if it were appropriate.

I'm not sure if these are the views of all Pagans or the view of just KarmaWiseRaven, but either way, I would venture to say that generally people will most often treat their ailment/illness rather than just figure it's their time to go.

Just because you get a diagnosis of Cancer....or lung disease....or diabetes does not mean that you shouldn't seek treatment.

[RNGrammie]

Still, rather than call the poster a rude buffoon (your words), I can take them at face value and believe that they really mean no disrespect and really think the posters beliefs are utterly ridiculous, especially considering modern chemotherapy saved her life. Just as another poster called religious beliefs "wacky" or "hindering of care", etc.

.

Just to set the record straight, I did not require chemo...I did however, receive 30 rounds of radiation that had horrific side effects. Never did I feel during these times, that it was "my time to go". At that time, it was part of my life and I wanted my life so I did what needed to be done. Had I been told there was nothing that could be done for me, then I would have re-evaluated things.

More importantly, as a nurse, I would NEVER tell a patient that is was perfectly ok to just accept a diagnosis and assume that it's just "your time to go"!!!

[KarmaWiseRaven]

Well i seem to be the topic of the day. Let introduce myself shall i. My Name is Anthony. KarmaWiseRaven is a part of my middle name. I'm 1/2 Sicilian and 1/2 Cherokee.

I read all these post you have said about me and wow what did i do to deserve this. My beliefs (Yes) I don't know if all pagans think how i think most try to to live holistic and natural. How i think and feel is just that (what i think) Did you all read my posting? You all read it but didn't hear what i was saying funny how text is taken. Did you not read i have two Dr's one is Holistic one is Primary Care..

Not once have i ever pushed my ways or my beliefs on any one or patient matter of fact all my family members know and my 2 Dr's is that i have a DNR and advance directives on file with them and the hospital that's it.

I guess whats really sad is. You all who have posted and put the attention on me. You missed the real reason what the posting was really meant to be for. And i really feel sorry for you all. And shame on me shame on me for thinking i can answer a posting on Allnurses openly and honestly. I think for now on i will keep very shallow and closed minded Ty you all really TY.

I don't think i have to explain myself to you. My posting is my posting. Did you not read (These are my thoughts use them as you wish). Take that advice. Anthony

[GilaRRT]

Well i seem to be the topic of the day. Let introduce myself shall i. My Name is Anthony. KarmaWiseRaven is a part of my middle name. I'm 1/2 Sicilian and 1/2 Cherokee.

I read all these post you have said about me and wow what did i do to deserve this. My beliefs (Yes) I don't know if all pagans think how i think most try to to live holistic and natural. How i think and feel is just that (what i think) Did you all read my posting? You all read it but didn't hear what i was saying funny how text is taken. Did you not read i have two Dr's one is Holistic one is Primary Care..

Not once have i ever pushed my ways or my beliefs on any one or patient matter of fact all my family members know and my 2 Dr's is that i have a DNR and advance directives on file with them and the hospital that's it.

I guess whats really sad is. You all who have posted and put the attention on me. You missed the real reason what the posting was really meant to be for. And i really feel sorry for you all. And shame on me shame on me for thinking i can answer a posting on Allnurses openly and honestly. I think for now on i will keep very shallow and closed minded Ty you all really TY.

I don't think i have to explain myself to you. My posting is my posting. Did you not read (These are my thoughts use them as you wish). Take that advice. Anthony

Why take this so personally? You have presented an alternative point of view and some of us are curious as to how you derived this set of beliefs. Feel free not to explain your self; however, I would hope you would be secure enough in your belief system to discuss the rationale behind it without having to get all hurt and defensive.

In fact, only a couple of people have actually said anything negative toward you, while the majority of us have had a discussion regarding said belief system. We may not agree and there may have been some conflict, but any good discussion will have alternative points of view and people who are willing to discuss their point of view. Sometimes, the discussion can become intense but hopefully remain respectful. Anything less would simply be boring. In fact, we have been nothing but open and honest, near as I can tell.

[GilaRRT]

Truly, I did not mean any disprespect to KarmaWiseRaven. Had we been speaking face to face I would have stated.....That is utterly ridiculous to her statement of "not looking for options". If you had appendicitis would you not accept the option of an appendectomy?? Would you suffer w/ the gallstones when there are proven treatments available?? Not accept treatment for the broken hip, leg or arm because it might be "my time to go"? Would it be "my time to go" if I were diagnosed w/ diabetes?? I don't think so and I would tell someone they were ridiculous (maybe use different verbage) for not changing their diet..excercising and/or using insulin if it were appropriate.

I'm not sure if these are the views of all Pagans or the view of just KarmaWiseRaven, but either way, I would venture to say that generally people will most often treat their ailment/illness rather than just figure it's their time to go.

Just because you get a diagnosis of Cancer....or lung disease....or diabetes does not mean that you shouldn't seek treatment.

Alternatively, we are all big boys and girls here. Assuming we have been well informed of the situation, the options and the alternatives, we are free to choose.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I guess whats really sad is. You all who have posted and put the attention on me. You missed the real reason what the posting was really meant to be for. And i really feel sorry for you all. And shame on me shame on me for thinking i can answer a posting on Allnurses openly and honestly. I think for now on i will keep very shallow and closed minded Ty you all really TY.

I don't think i have to explain myself to you. My posting is my posting. Did you not read (These are my thoughts use them as you wish). Take that advice. Anthony

I think we read your post, but I think you need to re-read this thread. The one person that criticized you the most had people jump down her throat. Another poster asked for some clarification as to what you meant which you've chosen to ignore. That's two people out of an entire forum, and both of them got negative responses from members who were defending you. Don't judge an entire forum just because you got a few negative reponses.

Rather than be closed minded and shallow why don't you take this opportunity to educate us. I love hearing about alternative lifestyles.