Frustrated in BSN program - page 4
So I am tired of getting treated like an ignorant, useless nurse because I only have an ADN and denied employment everywhere because I'm not a BSN. I get into a BSN program and start taking EXPENSIVE... Read More
Nov 24, '12Occupation: Inpatient Med/Surg Specialty: 30 year(s) of experience in Orthopedics, psychiatry, amb. procedure ; From: US ; Joined: Apr '10; Posts: 2I am a Diploma nurse working in the hospital where I went to school. I have been there 29 years. I know if I want to further my career I will have to go back to school at some point. I have been lucky enough to be "grandfathered" in by our union but I know the frustration by new nurses trying to get jobs. The only difference a BSN gets you is more research education not bedside education. I have watched new nurses with BSN degree's almost drown when thrown to the wolves on very busy nursing floors. Pretty soon all hospitals will only hire nurses with BSN degrees. I don't agree with this but that is the way things are going. If your feeling overwhelmed maybe taking a break then going back may be an option. As a Diploma nurse I had the same education that a ADN did I just don't have the title, and we did get a lot more clinical experience.
Nov 24, '12Joined: Aug '05; Posts: 38,991; Likes: 48,075If this is not a BSN vs ADN and diploma discussion........then call me Mrs Clause. I have heard this "discussion" over and over again for the last 36 years. I grow weary of the same incessant argument when there is never a solution to the problem/argument. But it is what it is.......
However...... I do agree that nursing needs to agree upon on single level of entry education.....If for no other reason than to STOP this incessant chatter about the same tired subject...... I have yet to see that data from a non biased study the indicates to me that the BSN is a superior education and produces the superior nurse.
ADN/ASN degrees requirements vary from school to school. Even with a BSN....... not all schools curriculum are created equally. I have seen a distinct "DUMMING DOWN" of various school curriculum (especially removing pharmacology and pathophys), especially with the onslaught of ALL these for profit and on line schools......... that essentially will accept anyone willing to pay enough money to become an RN.
Now, whether or not you will pass broads and that there are states that will not accept your education is another discussion altogether. I have also scene a particular dumming down of these programs by watering down the curriculum that I actually believe it was done on purpose, by the very proponents of a BSN entry, just to prove the point that the BSN is the "superior" degree. Pandering to their own opinion/bias.
The only example I have is that the very University I graduated from, who no longer offers the ASN option, (go figure) has moved that same ASN curriculum to the ABSN route. Proving that once you have all those extraneous "extra" credits required that you that you HAD TO HAVE to graduate from any college/major with a bachelors.....come here and in 2 years you are a nurse....in essence making you a ADN/ASN graduate with a bachelors in another major. So, my ASN program is a ABSN program minus all the fluff.....pathophysiology included. How would that make me "less of a nurse" than anyone else?
Grant it I graduated a LONG time ago and I had a vary prominent career .....LONG before I had a BSN. So, I too, am one who feels the BSN just added letters after my name. Why did I get it.....my employer paid for it. In full. Do I sign my name in the chart RN BSN? No....I find that redundant....I am a RN that is what counts. Whether one has a diploma, ASN, BSN, or MSN as an entry...you all pass the same nursing board to place RN after your name that counts.
NOW....are hospitals pushing for all BSN's? The answer is Yes......
Are they paying nurses more for spending more on their education? NO.....
If one is entering nursing now....should they get a BSN? In this economy.......yes. It is the hospitals game right now.....they can pick and choose whomever they wish, whenever they wish......even place MSN at the bedside because there are no other jobs. 50% of all college graduates cannot find jobs in their field of study and that includes nursing.
Contrary to what someone said.......There ARE MSN programs that are direct RN MSN entryThe RN/MSN program is designed for the registered nurse who does not have a bachelor’s degree in nursing or other field of study. However, you must be a graduate of a nationally accredited diploma or associate’s degree nursing program.
Because this is an integrated program, you will not receive a bachelor’s degree. You can earn your MSN by completing 140 credits (24 credit hours less than the conventional two degree sequence).The Entry-Level MSN (ELMSN) is a cohort program designed to prepare candidates with a previous non-nursing bachelor's or higher degree to gain RN licensure and the MSN degree.
Once again.....I am left shaking my head.
Nov 24, '12Occupation: Travel Nursing/ER/Trauma Specialty: 10 year(s) of experience in Adult/Ped Emergency and Trauma ; From: US ; Joined: Oct '11; Posts: 1,263; Likes: 3,901Quote from woohOh Wooh!!! Did you have to bring up Honey Booboo??Outside the cities, but at least in Atlanta, there's a rising push for BSN. (Of course, in the southeast, there's not much respect for higher education anywhere. Why get book learnin' when you can get yourself a tv gig on Honey Boo Boo?)
We have tried soooooo hard to get passed the embarrassment of Civil Rights, the Klan, and all those trailer Girls with the big hair too willing to get on National TV after the tornado with 3 teeth and the curlers, and now Honey Booboo!?!?!
Why TLC WHY??!!
Nov 24, '12Joined: Jul '06; Posts: 6,976; Likes: 12,468To the OP. Ya I hear you. I think I actually got dumber in my BSN program. The level of discourse was pathetic and I don't think my instructors knew anything about modern nursing. The time I spend in the BSN program would have been much better spent taking the classes offered by the hospital on 12 lead EKG, IABP, CRRT, assessment, hemodynamics, ATCN, fundamentals of critical care, leadership, etc.
Unlike like you I didn't have to spend a dime on my college education. The only adivce I have is to stick it out and suck it up. Think of it as a box you must get checked in order to progress with your career. Expecting an experienced RN to learn anything about nursing in a BSN program is unrealistic. The majority of RNs in my BSN program already had undergrad degrees in other fields. According to them the BSN wasn't very challenging in compairison. I thought it was easy.
Remember the difference between an ADN and BSN RN is 12-18 months of part time online classes. Less for those ADNs who already have a bachelors degree (and that is a lot of them).Last edit by PMFB-RN on Nov 24, '12
Nov 24, '12Occupation: Travel Nursing/ER/Trauma Specialty: 10 year(s) of experience in Adult/Ped Emergency and Trauma ; From: US ; Joined: Oct '11; Posts: 1,263; Likes: 3,901I just think(and it's not even worth $0.02) that Nursing is such a diverse Profession, there will always be a place for everyone. I, like the majority of the posters thus far, think that the climate is always changing and always everything is tighter regulated, never less regulated.
But, like Esme12 said, it's a mute point to beat the dead horse of who's "higher" or better- because it doesn't do our profession any favors.
If I were you I would stick with the education, if for no other reason than to prepare for the future. It does disgust me this is the first time in my observance of history that an education could be a "gamble." I wish I would have had the $$$ to go to a BSN school out of the gate. However, I had to work through all of it(had I been born rich I probably wouldn't have been here right now any way, I would be in New Orleans spending my trust fund.
So I think what the programs may lack in Educational Offerings- don't forget the character we gained fighting for it- no matter what the title is. I was just as proud of my ADN, as I was my MSN- and it was much harder to obtain.
Nov 24, '12Joined: Mar '09; Posts: 3,522; Likes: 3,436Honestly, being in school + hating it = a huge waste of $$$. Quit while you're ahead.
Nov 24, '12Occupation: RN Specialty: 10 year(s) of experience in Emergency, ICU ; From: US ; Joined: Aug '07; Posts: 850; Likes: 1,719Quote from MunoRNI'm sure this program required a Bachelor degree in something plus an RN degree. Many direct entry MSN programs allow for non-nursing BA plus RN to apply.That would seem to imply a significant difference, as opposed to "semantics" in which the only difference is the word used.. I was talking with another Nurse the other night who had an ASN and wanted an MSN at some point and figured she needed a BSN first. She was looking at an MSN program (which was not designed as an ADN to MSN program) which required a BSN, although they would accept a 4 page essay in lieu of a BSN. This was one of the top rankedin the nation which considered the difference between an ASN and a BSN to be essentially a 4 page homework assignment, not exactly a significant difference.
But yes, I agree that if there's an option somewhere to write a paper to prove your readiness for master level courses, then the BSN is just..., well BS.
JZ RN: I would quit this expensive program and apply to an adn to msn bridge program. Better use of money and time.
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Nov 24, '12Occupation: RN Specialty: CICU ; From: US ; Joined: Sep '07; Posts: 1,125; Likes: 1,939I am working on my BSN for personal reasons mostly, but do get pretty decent tuition reimbursement from work. I feel like I am learning and that the nursing courses are useful (for the most part).
It is what it is. Maybe your program just stinks. I like mine. I'll be proud to have a BSN, and my employer does reward it, however modestly.
Nov 24, '12From: UK ; Joined: Nov '12; Posts: 393; Likes: 676I didn't have to pay for my BSN. There are several different ways you can get one for "free" if you qualify or you're chosen of course. No, it wasn't financial aid. I didn't qualify for aid since the BSN was a second degree. Contrary to what people like to say here, there IS a demand for BSN nurses, and they will pay for you to get it.
I do think that many of the ADN programs been "dumbed down" because too many people were failing the "hard" classes and there used to be an actual nursing shortage. Problem: we need more nurses. Solution: make it so less people fail the program and they can be nurses! Why don't I say the BSN has been dumbed down also? Well, all the programs I'm familiar with STILL require all those "hard" CLASSES that when people fail they go to the ADN program. I would bet money there are people on this forum who failed out of the university program and then went to the ADN program or whatever program would take them. Oh, wait, I don't have to bet. I can just type in "failed" in the search box. Oh, no...they are the same programs. If they failed the university they will never make it through the CC either.....
I'm not sure why it's acceptable (although really it's only acceptable on this forum) to tell people that their bachelor's degrees are "useless, fluff, a waste of time, etc," but it's just APPALLING ...if...after twisting words, putting them under a microscope, and taking them out of context....someone believes that people with associate's degrees were somehow insulted.
Nov 24, '12Occupation: manifesting Philippeans 4:8 From: US ; Joined: Aug '07; Posts: 5,944; Likes: 11,198These threads make me chuckle.
If employers are setting a standard, you can either waste your time on the internet whining about it or you can do what many of us have chosen to do... obtain the credentials that they're looking for.
Your opinions (or mine) really don't matter... the only ones that do are the ones held by the folks making the hiring decisions.
Personally, I'd choose the best graduates out of a solid ADN program over the worst out of a BSN program.
On the other hand, I'd choose the best BSN graduates over the best ADN graduates.
As I said, though: My opinion matters not a whit... only those of the people who set the interviewing/hiring criteria... and if they want BSNs, you ignore their opinions at your own peril.
Nov 24, '12Occupation: RN & Critter Mama From: US ; Joined: Feb '04; Posts: 4,977; Likes: 20,737Quote from Ntheboat2Not to mention everyone who got a BSN was LOST when they got onto the floor.I'm not sure why it's acceptable (although really it's only acceptable on this forum) to tell people that their bachelor's degrees are "useless, fluff, a waste of time, etc," but it's just APPALLING ...if...after twisting words, putting them under a microscope, and taking them out of context....someone believes that people with associate's degrees were somehow insulted.
Nov 24, '12Occupation: CRNA Specialty: 45 year(s) of experience ; From: MI, US ; Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 1,695; Likes: 2,227Quote from Ntheboat2I don' t even come close to believing a school would substitute 60 credits for a four page essay.What school is this, btw?
Nov 24, '12From: UK ; Joined: Nov '12; Posts: 393; Likes: 676Quote from subeeThey don't. From my previous post:I don' t even come close to believing a school would substitute 60 credits for a four page essay.
From the University of Washington website:
If you are admitted to the MN program, additional requirements you MUST meet before starting the program are:
- successful completion of one of the following:
- a baccalaureate nursing degree from an accredited university
- an associate degree or diploma from an accredited RN program, and a baccalaureate degree in a non-nursing field
- successful completion of one of the following: