ADN's being pushed out - page 5

I work for a large Magnet hospital. As nursing becomes more popular, and nurses not in short supply, I have noticed something ominous has being going on lately. Several of our older and very seasoned... Read More

  1. by   foreverLaur
    Quote from JPinto01
    I took summer classes at the local community college here and compared the curriculum for the ASN program to the BSN program that I am in and there are some differences in the type of training received and classes taken. Cardiac rhythms are taught at my program which are not offered at the local community college. In addition, the BSN program participates in clinicals at the local Magnet hospital whereas the community college has simulation labs only. I think it really depends on the school you go to. Pennsylvania is phasing out ASN's completely. If you want a hospital job, you'll need your BSN.
    This is nothing like how it is in my area. My ADN program did clinical rotations at every single major hospital in the are (all Magnet) and we even did more Magnet hospital based clinical rotations than one of the BSN programs. We also learned cardiac rhythms in depth and I took courses in acute/critical care nursing which I have heard is uncommon in ADN programs.

    The simulation labs are really awesome, but certainly not a replacement. Taking care of an ICU patient during a code on a Sim did, however, help me feel more comfortable in the ICU in clinicals.
  2. by   BlueDevil,DNP
    Quote from fakebee
    Doesn't really matter what side of the fence you're on in the ADN vs. BSN debate or what you may think is or isn't fair...the bottom line is that if employers want their nurses to have a BSN or even an MSN then we as nurses will do as they require or go hungry.
    This is perfectly stated. Know your local market. If your area employers are still hiring associate degree prepared RNs in significant numbers, you have nothing to worry about for now. If they are not, start investigating your options for continuing education. The rest of the argument about the quality of one school vs another is childish and a moot point. At the end of the day, you must have what they want or you won't get the job, period. All the hand wringing, complaining and wishing it weren't so doesn't change the cold facts of economic reality. What other choice do you have? Get over it and get on with it.
  3. by   mee9mee9
    What about those who enroll in rn to bsn programs?
  4. by   foreverLaur
    One hospital I was interested says:
    "Graduated from an NLNAC or CCNE accredited nursing baccalaureate program (BSN). Candidates graduating from an Associates Degree-to-BSN or LPN-to-BSN programs are not eligible"

  5. by   BlueDevil,DNP
    I agree that there are often significant differences in traditional University baccalaureate degrees and ADN to BSN completion programs. However, while it is commonplace in my neck of the woods for ADNs not to be considered for most positions, that is the first time I have heard of an ADN to BSN completion degree being unacceptable even in the present day "BSN preferred" environment.
  6. by   foreverLaur
    Here's a list of the courses I took in my ADN program. It doesn't seem like much is really missing from a typical BSN program...

    Introduction to Professional Nursing: Concepts and Practice
    Nursing Care of Adults and Older Adults I
    Health Assessment
    Pathophysiology for Nursing Practice
    Introduction to Therapeutic Communication for Health Professionals
    Pharmacology for Nurses
    Scholarship for Evidence Based Practice
    Nursing Care of Adults and Older Adults
    Cultural Competence in Health Care: US and Global Contexts
    Concepts in Community Health Nursing
    Nursing Care of Children and Their Families
    Nursing Care of Women and Their Families During Reproductive Transitions
    Psychiatric and Mental Health Nursing
    Using Advanced Nursing Skills to Manage the Care of Critically Ill Adult Patients
    Leadership and Management of Nursing Practice

    Before starting, I had to take lifespan development psychology, anatomy, physiology, statistics, nutrition, and microbiology. We had about 1200 clinical hours and do a preceptorship our last semester.
  7. by   CarryThatWeight
    This seems to be an age old debate. In my mind, there are two realities. 1) A lot of regions in the U.S. are indeed not hiring as many ADN's, or are not hiring any at all. While Magnet does not require a certain percentage of nurses to be BSN prepared, Magnet hospitals and those pursuing Magnet status seem to be the worst when it comes to passing over qualified ADN's for BSN applicants. Many of us, myself included, are forced to get the BSN in order to find a job. What choice do we have? 2) ADN vs. BSN education can be debated, but we all know BSN's that are not the best nurses and ADN's and diploma grads that are absolutely stellar. There are good schools and bad schools out there, regardless of degree level. When I'm in the patient bed, I want a nurse that knows what he/she is doing. Period. I really don't care to ask their level of education. In most respects, there is no substitute for experience. It is too bad so many hospitals fail to recognize that.
  8. by   Mom2Chaos
    I do not want to feed the animosity of this debate, as I feel it is senseless. But I am inclined to make two comments:

    1. It has been my observation that there is far more contempt coming from ADN nurses/student s towards BSN's than the other way around.

    2. As the market has become further saturated with RN's, education becomes one way to differentiate job candidates. Not the ONLY way, as experience is valuable, but all other things being equal it becomes a distinction.

    3. In an environment where jobs like Pharmacy Tech and welder now require an associates degree, whereas it was once on OJT training, why are we shocked that the bar is being lifted in our industry?

    4. RN's are still better-off than social workers- where the baseline degree is a Masters, and after licensing they can hope to find a $30k per year job.
  9. by   Mom2Chaos
    Ok... Make that four comments, lol!
  10. by   Anoetos
    There is actually a document outlining the essentials of a baccalaureate prepared nurse. We studied it in Senior Seminar. I'll try to find a copy and post it in a separate thread.
  11. by   Lennonninja
    Quote from foreverLaur
    One hospital I was interested says:
    "Graduated from an NLNAC or CCNE accredited nursing baccalaureate program (BSN). Candidates graduating from an Associates Degree-to-BSN or LPN-to-BSN programs are not eligible"

    Wow, that's rather insane...
  12. by   Orca
    Explain to me how more education (4 years vs 2) does NOT make you a better nurse?? How, exactly is an ADN better prepared than a BSN? That is nonsense. And guess who else thinks so?? Magnet and most other hospitals, pharma and research companies, universities, etc. If you are fine with an ADN that's great, but don't try to belittle those whose took the incentive for a more well-rounded education. Or in my case, a MSN.
    I find your comments highly insulting. You imply that anyone who doesn't pursue a BSN is simply lazy. I can't speak for others, but in my own case it came down to accommodation. I had a bachelor's degree in another field when I decided to pursue nursing. I was locked into an 8-5 Monday-Friday job at the time, and since I couldn't set work aside to go to school, I checked around. Time-wise, it would have been about the same to go either way. However, the BSN programs in my area expected me to be available pretty much all day and most evenings, while one ADN program set up a track specifically for people like me - people who had no choice but to work while attending school. Our classes were set up on evenings and weekends.

    With all other things being equal, a BSN has more education than an ADN. However, you seem to be advocating pushing all ADNs aside for BSNs, as if experience counts for nothing. I have been in this profession for 17 years, and I have served in line, supervisory and administrative positions. If you are saying that a new grad BSN is preferable to me, then you are being equally nonsensical.
  13. by   kitty13
    The comments regarding degrees and hospitals requiring BSN is the direction many facilities have been moving over the last couple of years. I am a diploma nurse, graduated from a 3 yr program that allowed nothing but an 80% test score averages. We worked just like staff in the hospitals during our training.
    I could not afford to continue my education after graduation to the BSN level. My friends in the four year program may have a BSN but they admit when they worked at the same hospital the year they graduated they were far behind the skills of those of us from the Diploma program.
    I am searching for a job now and i am finding nothing!
    Last edit by kitty13 on Aug 12, '12 : Reason: typo