ADN's being pushed out

Anoetos, BSN, RN · Aug 10, 2012

I'm not sure what kind of ADN program you graduated from, but we discussed ethics extensively, had an entire class on community health nursing (including a few clinicals in public health nursing), and always used evidence based practice nursing. Whoever said ADN nurses don't do a boatload of research and write a boatload of papers clearly didn't actually go to nursing school! My whole last semester is nursing leadership. Specialty electives were required and I took them in end of life nursing, trauma nursing, and critical care nursing.

First of all, my program was BSN. That said, I get your point and I never meant to imply that your were inadequately prepared. I am quite certain you are a far better nurse than I will am at the moment, having just finished school.

My point about law and ethics, community health and evidence based practice was not that the ADN doesn't get any of it, clearly you do, they form essentials of modern nursing practice. My point was that the longer BSN program permits a greater immersion in the subjects, thus, it is to be hoped a better preparation upon graduation for work in fields requiring a greater emphasis on these disciplines.

If I was unable to make the point clearly, I am sure the fault is entirely my own.

Anoetos, BSN, RN · Aug 10, 2012

Can only speak for myself: I am 52 years old. If I ever get to retire it would probably happen when I am 70 or older. I work 10 hour days 5 days per week, on call 24/7 (no pay). I do not work in a hospital, but an assisted living facility. I consider myself an RN with nearly 30 years experience. I cannot afford school and I have not the time. No one is going to hire me at my age anyways. I think BSN is great. But don't take away my experience. Don't belittle it. Don't consider me less of a nurse. My recommendation is to get your BSN first going in. Go to state schools so cost may be less. I am in management with many years experience. I see no reason for me to have to get my BSN. I should be grandfathered in. Plus, I took same test as BSN nurses.

I hope no one has ever belittled your experience. I know that I never would.

But by the same token, I cannot tell you how many times, upon being asked what my degree is, I have been told by ADN prepared nurses that they are just as good as me. I cannot escape the inference that much of the animosity and division is driven by a sort of inferiority complex on their part.

On the other hand, I can just imagine BSN prepared nurses going into the work environment and acting as though they were superior. I can imagine it, but, thankfully, I have not witnessed it.

foreverLaur · Aug 10, 2012

When I said my last semester is, I meant that I am currently in my last semester :) Nursing was just a second career for me - I already have a bachelors degree and I work in clinical research. I wish I could have done a 2nd degree accelerated BSN program but given the significantly higher cost (my ADN programs is $79 a credit hour) and the inability to work full-time... it simply wasn't an option.

allnurses Guide · Aug 10, 2012

I just finished my BSN and never took music, linguistics or history.
I did however take classes in leadership, law and ethics, community and public health (emphasis on prevention/promotion), and above all, evidence based nursing practice.
And yes, I am hopeful these classes have prepared me for a broader scope of practice than the excellent training my ADN brothers and sisters received in generalist, bedside nursing.

I don't know of any state that has separate scopes of practice for RNs depending on their degree, despite the efforts of the pro-BSN lobbying groups.

Anoetos, BSN, RN · Aug 10, 2012

I don't know of any state that has separate scopes of practice for RNs depending on their degree, despite the efforts of the pro-BSN lobbying groups.

Probably an unfortunate choice of words on my part. You're quite right, scope is scope.

Be that as it may, I hope my point wasn't lost.

Kay28 · Aug 10, 2012

All this talk of ADN vs BSN. Don't forget about us lowly diploma grads. LOL

allnurses Guide · Aug 10, 2012

Probably an unfortunate choice of words on my part. You're quite right, scope is scope.
Be that as it may, I hope my point wasn't lost.

No, your point was clear.

Kay, a diploma grad! I'm glad there are still at least a few still around! :bow: I have a soft spot for those schools, and there are very few out here on the West coast!

DSkelton711 · Aug 10, 2012

I hope no one has ever belittled your experience. I know that I never would.
But by the same token, I cannot tell you how many times, upon being asked what my degree is, I have been told by ADN prepared nurses that they are just as good as me. I cannot escape the inference that
mu ch of the animosity and division is driven by a sort of inferiority complex on their part.
On the other hand, I can just imagine BSN prepared nurses going into the work environment and acting as though they were superior. I can imagine it, but, thankfully, I have not witnessed it.

Sorry did not mean to imply that anyone here belittled or otherwise. I have never been belittled (I am a pretty smart cookie so that helps!). I just want my experience counted. I have almost 30 years of it. I am also a well-read individual and feel that I have a well-rounded "education" from life and doing self-study. I have an appreciation for the arts, history, have experience with budgets, financial planning, statistics, etc. It does smart a little when a potential employers is focused on 3 initials and nothing else. I don't feel less of a nurse, I have no inferiority complex as I know I am good at what I do and it has more to do with experience than education. The real world is where one becomes a real nurse. Most nurses I know just don't want their experience taken away from them or feel that ones profession is at risk after giving your life to it for so long. Whew! I like the idea of BSN, but

wilsonbl5150 · Aug 10, 2012

I'm a LVN in Texas and what you describe has been happening down here for a few years. Acute care is only interested in RN\BSN. The ADN.'s are going into long term care and squeezing the LVN's out.

RN In FL · Aug 10, 2012

I have a 2 Bachelors, started a Masters, finished an MHA and I'm just now doing nursing pre-reqs. I want to be a nurse but I am paying for this. I don't want to be pushed out of the higher paying jobs at the hospital simply because I don't have a BSN when I have a higher level degree. It is happening but it is not fair. And they know the LTC facilities won't necessarily have the same benefits packages as the hospitals for nurses to get a BSN. So it is creating a pay/class system.

Why on earth are you going into nursing???? Are you only after the "higher paying jobs???

RN In FL · Aug 10, 2012

Agree, agree. Here in Florida they are being pushed out. But not in Chicago where my friend has yet to consider getting a BSN and is constantly getting work at just under $40/hour. In Florida the magnet facilities are pushing out nurses and it is unfair. You are hiring BSN that have little experience. The experienced nurse can provide better care. Also, you are making it hard for those re-careering into nursing. I already have many degrees. I don't want to pay for a BSN. I just want an ASN, MSN, doctorate. Might have to move.

sounds like to me, you don't really want to be a nurse, just another career changing person, wanting to hop skip your way to the top of our profession :uhoh3: You just want the "RN" title... I live here in FL, and I don't see where ADN's are being pushed out anywhere.

JustADream · Aug 10, 2012

Here in Georgia, I have experienced BSN nurses (and even BSN nursing students) indicating that they feel that ADN and diploma nurses are inferior. Fortunately at my institution, there are still ADN nurses in management that advocate for ADN and diploma-prepared nurses (I am ADN). Some other facilities in this area have changed their policies to where they only hire BSN nurses, but the majority are not that way at least around where I live.

That is not to say that I don't think people should continue their education if they can- in fact I have already applied to an RN-BSN program on my own. However, it is disappointing to me as a new grad to see nurses and other staff judging someone on the sole basis of their educational background without even knowing what they are capable of at the bedside. To me, it is not the education that makes the nurse, but rather the unique individual that makes the nurse! I have met what I would consider good and bad nurses from all educational levels so far.

To give you an example, I recently overheard a tech belittling ADN programs to a group of other techs. She is in nursing school for her BSN and basically said that ADN nursing programs suck and should be eliminated. She is entitled to her opinion, but it is interesting to me how she can be so judgmental + arrogant and not even have graduated or taken NCLEX-RN yet. Anyway, I worked hard in nursing school for my ASN and I feel that my program did an excellent job of preparing me for the "real world." I also know that I am proud to be an RN and nothing anyone says is going to change my mind, especially that particular tech. :)