Refusing to dissect in A&P or Microbiology?

joel.mercado · Nov 15, 2012

I want to thank everyone for responding and sharing your thoughts and opinions with me. From my understanding some of you had to dissect animals in your anatomy class, while others did not. Hopefully my class doesn't dissect, but if we do I'll volunteer to take notes. If I MUST dissect, I'll pull through it and do it. I'll feel HORRIBLE afterwards but it has to be done if I hope to pass with a good grade and possibly become a nurse. Thank you all!

vintagemother, BSN, CNA, LVN, RN · Nov 15, 2012

Joel.mercado--- if you talk to your professor privately, he or she may work with you. I personally had professors who forced people to either dissect or fail and I also had professors who didn't care, as long as you can pass your lab practicals.

With respect to all who voiced your opinions, the attitudes voiced toward this person who believes strongly in not killing/ using animal products is closed minded.

I'm in nursing school now and we are learning about tolerance of those with different beliefs, races, sexuality, etc. while being a vegan is not a protected class, I personally believe that all people's desires deserve respect as long as they don't infringe upon mine.

I personally used to be vegan.

http://www.animalearn.org/faq.php

Some time ago, I read that many medicals schools provide dissection alternatives to their students. Among the reasons given for not forcing dissection were 1. Human anatomy does not mirror animal anatomy. 2. Dead tissue does not react under the knife in the same manner as live tissue and 3. Some research shows doctors can learn more by observing and working on live, consenting humans.

I can't find links to this info, now though. Grrrr! Google and their "updates".

PMFB-RN, RN · Nov 15, 2012

I'm in nursing school now and we are learning about tolerance of those with different beliefs, races, sexuality, etc. while being a vegan is not a protected class, I personally believe that all people's desires deserve respect as long as they don't infringe upon mine.
I personally used to be vegan.
Frequently Asked Questions About Dissection Alternatives : Animalearn | The Science Bank

*** If one comes to a public board like this and shares things about themselves you MUST expect others to comment. Some of those comments will be critical. I am tolerant of others choises and beliefes, however when one's beliefs are based on false propaganda (like the website you posted) AND the person insists on sharing this on a public board I am going to comment. I assume the posted wishes to recieves comments otherwise they would have not posted on such a forum.

rubato, ASN, RN · Nov 15, 2012

Not dissecting an animal does not mean you are saving the life of an animal. They are still dead .

I understand. Sometimes though, it's the principle of the thing. Let's say that you have 10 dead cats for a dissection (oh, and I don't even really like cats). If everyone refused the dissection, and the next semester, and the next, they would stop killing the cats eventually so you could make a change. I know when I see millions of people eating meat that my little individual effort isn't changing much, but........if one less cow dies in my lifetime, I'm happy about it.

And, that's just me. :)

I'd rather work on human cadavers that have agreed to donate their bodies to science. Much better science, anyway. Not planning on being a vet.

rubato, ASN, RN · Nov 15, 2012

You would cause the deaths of fewer animals if you ate meat and were very selective about where you got it.

Could you please explain your position to me? How could eating even one animal cause "fewer" animal deaths? Just curious. I'm assuming you're talking about going with local, grass fed, organic. But, while healthier, how is it less killing in my personal life?

PMFB-RN, RN · Nov 15, 2012

Could you please explain your position to me? How could eating even one animal cause "fewer" animal deaths? Just curious. I'm assuming you're talking about going with local, grass fed, organic. But, while healthier, how is it less killing in my personal life?

*** Yes local and grass fed, but not necessarily organic. Organic isn't a good choice if one's concern is with animal welfare. I used to be an organic crop and dairy farmer selling my product to Organic Valley. In addition we did, and still do, a thriving grass fed meat business selling beef & lamb directly to consumers by the quarter and half.

When I was farming full time a graduate student from the University of Wisconsin College of Life Sciences came to our farm to conduct a study. He was attempting to determine the number of mammals, birds, reptiles and anphbians we destroyed in the farming process. He shared his data with me. He had a one square meter frame he would drop at random places in the just harvested fields. His stuy was conducted over the corse of three years with a variety of different crops. My farm was only one of dozens of farms he was studying. For dryland organic field crops like corn, wheat, soy beans, barly, etc he found 1.7 dead birds and mammals killed in the harvesting process per square meter. That's 6,878 dead animals per acre. Animals consisted of mice, rats, muskrats, deer fawns, rabbits, racoons, opposums, skunks and others plus a variety of ground nesting birds and frogs, salamanders. By far the highest number of animals killed in the harvesting process was for organic rice where numbers were 3.2 dead animals per meter.

Non organic fields for dryland crops were 0.3 per meter. Pasture for grazing animals was zero. Eating grass fed steak results in the death of one animal. Eating a dinner of organic soybeans and rice results in the deaths of a dozen animals.

vintagemother, BSN, CNA, LVN, RN · Nov 15, 2012

Pmfb rn-- I believe, ideally we would all be tolerant of others beliefs. The reason why some vegans would agree to dissect humans is because they have consented. While animals have no choice.

As for me, I don't believe animals are equivalent to humans with regard to their rights and feelings, but I do believe their lives shouldn't be wasted unnecessarily. I'm not sure if tge education of those taking nursing school prereqs is a good reason for wasting an animal life. I'd venture that a small portion of people get a lot of benefit educationally from dissections. In any class, there are people who don't participate in this fully and who sit back. This type of education does not "speak" to all learning styles.

I enjoyed my animal dissections, and did learn a lot. But I'm not sure the benefit is greater than the harm caused by unnecessary killing.

PMFB-RN, RN · Nov 15, 2012

Pmfb rn-- I believe, ideally we would all be tolerant of others beliefs.

*** Oh of course. Why say that to me? I am tolerant. I assumed that people post their beliefs here so they can be discussed and that's what we are doing.

Personaly I never post anything on a public message board like this I don't want discussed.

ComeTogether, LPN · Nov 15, 2012

*** While the idea of a cat farm sounds repugnant the fact is that many, many animals die so that you may live your life. It is cause it's cats, normaly a pet animal, that bothers you? Or is it cause you actually have to see the dead animal when usually the animals that die so that you may exsist are hidden?

What bothers me is that instead of finding a way to use ferrel cats or strays that are going to be put down anyway, they breed more cats to only be euthanized. Maybe it's the pet thing, I'm not sure it just really bothers me. I know animals are here for us to survive I have no problem with that bi just don't see the point in breeding animals to be killed when in my state alone the stray cat population is out of control.

"No day but today"

rubato, ASN, RN · Nov 15, 2012

*** Yes local and grass fed, but not necessarily organic. Organic isn't a good choice if one's concern is with animal welfare. I used to be an organic crop and dairy farmer selling my product to Organic Valley. In addition we did, and still do, a thriving grass fed meat business selling beef & lamb directly to consumers by the quarter and half.
When I was farming full time a graduate student from the University of Wisconsin College of Life Sciences came to our farm to conduct a study. He was attempting to determine the number of mammals, birds, reptiles and anphbians we destroyed in the farming process. He shared his data with me. He had a one square meter frame he would drop at random places in the just harvested fields. His stuy was conducted over the corse of three years with a variety of different crops. My farm was only one of dozens of farms he was studying. For dryland organic field crops like corn, wheat, soy beans, barly, etc he found 1.7 dead birds and mammals killed in the harvesting process per square meter. That's 6,878 dead animals per acre. Animals consisted of mice, rats, muskrats, deer fawns, rabbits, racoons, opposums, skunks and others plus a variety of ground nesting birds and frogs, salamanders. By far the highest number of animals killed in the harvesting process was for organic rice where numbers were 3.2 dead animals per meter.
Non organic fields for dryland crops were 0.3 per meter. Pasture for grazing animals was zero. Eating grass fed steak results in the death of one animal. Eating a dinner of organic soybeans and rice results in the deaths of a dozen animals.

Very interesting way to look at it. I do feed my family local, grass fed beef and use free range eggs. I just can't stand the thought of eating an animal. Ultimately, it all comes down to choices with each of us. Thanks for sharing your information.

SakuraChan · Nov 20, 2012

Wow! This thread is so long...lol!

I'm just responding to the OP!

In my A&P class we had to "dissect" a cat and we look at a cadaver (given to us by a local hospital) right from the day #1 of the semester (no joke!).

I do know ONE student in my class who refuses to look/dissect the cat and cadaver so the TAs give him a separate test (he pretty much has to draw everything on the whiteboard and label it for them).

Hope that helps! (:

makingstrides · Nov 21, 2012

OP: This is from Union County College's Website:

Some dissection of animal specimens is required of students enrolled in the laboratory portions of the following courses: BIO 102, BIO 105, BIO 106, BIO 111, http://www.ucc.edu/Media/Website%20Resources/documents/Administration/InstitutionalResearch/PRR2012/exhibit%20183.pdf

Under Academic Policies/Animal Dissection page 32.