I'm a senior nursing student and this debate arose with a couple of my classmates and me. I work as an ER tech and they work as patient care techs on the floor. As of right now, CDC guidelines state for PPE:
Quote
Updated PPE recommendations for the care of patients with known or suspected COVID-19:
Based on local and regional situational analysis of PPE supplies, facemasks are an acceptable alternative when the supply chain of respirators cannot meet the demand. During this time, available respirators should be prioritized for procedures that are likely to generate respiratory aerosols, which would pose the highest exposure risk to HCP.
Facemasks protect the wearer from splashes and sprays.
Respirators, which filter inspired air, offer respiratory protection.
When the supply chain is restored, facilities with a respiratory protection program should return to use of respirators for patients with known or suspected COVID-19. Facilities that do not currently have a respiratory protection program, but care for patients infected with pathogens for which a respirator is recommended, should implement a respiratory protection program.
Eye protection, gown, and gloves continue to be recommended
So basically CDC is saying wear an N95 if you have it, but if you don't, wear a surgical mask until you can get an N95.
So if you have a suspected or confirmed COVID-19 patient, and all you have is a surgical mask and no N95, can you refuse to take care of that patient? Do you face any legal repercussions or potential fallout from your employer if you do refuse? Asking not only about tech positions, but RN positions as well.
OMG thank you for saying this! It is so annoying how sanctimonious nurses try to act. Like this license wasn’t bestowed upon me like some sort of gift. I earned it myself and paid for it myself, in fact I’m still paying for the damn expensive thing. I put up with all kinds of BS and training and attitudes and studying to get it. The healthcare system did not give it to me with the expectation that I now belong to them. It is a degree like any other degree and a job like any other job. And I can walk away at any time if proper precautions are not in place. They drilled these precautions into us for years and years and now we are expected to forget them completely and sacrifice ourselves because we’re nurses. No thank you.
And don't forget most of us live in at will states where we can be fired for any reason or no reason on the spot and we likewise can quit our jobs for any reason! We are not the mililtary, we are not property of the US govt or any state govt that they can see fit to do with us what they want.
Again there is no reason for this save greed, plain and simple. I work for a national corporation that bragged about their supply chain network, yet our masks, esp TB masks are being kept under lock and key and PAPR's are sitting unused in storage and denied to the nurses working the COVID unit!
Again there is no reason for this save greed, plain and simple. I work for a national corporation that bragged about their supply chain network, yet our masks, esp TB masks are being kept under lock and key and PAPR's are sitting unused in storage and denied to the nurses working the COVID unit!
This is truly reprehensible. Corporations have masks in supply, so they are reporting no shortages. Yet they are refusing to use them supported by poorly defined contingency level guidance from the CDC. The CDC in turn bows to the White House and supports the whole charade. Corporations save money and reputations, and people die.
I actually heard in a meeting yesterday, "If everyone uses them for every COVID-19 patient, we will run out." The implication obviously is, "So we will hoard them for some imaginary future (when the masks are somehow more necessary?) use while putting HCWs at risk today."
If this was proposed for a movie script, it would be discarded as too far fetched.
Refusing care is neglect which is licensure loss and possible criminal charges
You must be new to nursing. I have seen nurses refuse patients all the time and get assignments switched, that is not neglect. And if safety is at risk you CAN refuse. Dont quote laws or statutes if you have no idea what you are saying.
Especially being pregnant, if I worked for a facility that would discard me for needing to protect myself or didn't have teammates to cover me like we have all done for one another, they could have my license.
Are the hospitals really the institution that deserves all this ire directed at them? If two (that's only the ones we know about) Senators could sell off stocks after the January 27 congressional briefing, we know the cat was out of the bag at LEAST by then. What happened before that and even after that? Not much. I don't know that the CDC even deserves the blame since the Trump administration has been so hostile to them and, although they didn't get the draconian funding cuts that Trump asked for, did not receive an iota of support for the former pandemic department. Fauci is in a sensitive position now with having to please two masters and keep his job. Binx is content to cave in to political pressures in an even bigger way. What a terrible note to end a previously honorable career on. All the foot dragging cost us months of non-production of PPE's we needed for a long predicted pandemic. I just heard Trump blame it on Obama today but he's now had 3 YEARS to address this problem and did nothing. That's where the anger should be directed, even though I know that some hospitals are just evil to their staffs and think everyone is expendible except administrators.
Yes the hospitals are certainly entitled to blame, certain politicians are to blame, CDC deserves criticism (JUST DO THE RIGHT THING AT THIS POINT), local public health departments are to blame,...My point is, that this is a multifaceted issue which created a perfect storm and healthcare workers are holding the short end of the stick and absolutely that makes us angry. So please, do not judge for each choosing how to navigate the situation - leave, stay, be bold, accept ones limitations (physical, mental and emotional), super-nurse, quietly disappear, quit loudly, cry and rise up again.... - we all get to choose and without shame or guilt.
Yes the hospitals are certainly entitled to blame, certain politicians are to blame, CDC deserves criticism (JUST DO THE RIGHT THING AT THIS POINT), local public health departments are to blame,...My point is, that this is a multifaceted issue which created a perfect storm and healthcare workers are holding the short end of the stick and absolutely that makes us angry. So please, do not judge for each choosing how to navigate the situation - leave, stay, be bold, accept ones limitations (physical, mental and emotional), super-nurse, quietly disappear, quit loudly, cry and rise up again.... - we all get to choose and without shame or guilt.
Yes! I get your anger - completely. And my comments were for the future when this has passed and we have to make sure this NEVER happens again. How was I judging anyone for being angry? You are in an existential crisis of no fault of your own. Rant away. But when this is over, just remember who deserves your gentle revenge at the polls:)
Subee, I was not implying that you were judging. You were not. We are on the same side. But I would like my comments not to be considered a rant per se (not just blowing of steam). I see it more as protest statement for change, solidarity and understanding. But yeah, we are on the same page.
Can nurses say thru the National Nurses United file a lawsuit against the CDC, even expand to a class action lawsuit for all the HCW who are knowingly being exposed to unsafe and potentially deadly working conditions by the CDC's lowering safety measures?
I hope the CDC is sued for purposely caving to the hospital interest's over the safety of the HCW's!
I LIKE this idea! Do you think maybe we can organize a petition or mobilize for this somehow using this platform via Allnurses.com.... is that allowed?
Now over 700 nurses and doctors are infected in Boston and NYC because of the unsafe PPE put thru by the CDC! How many need to be infected or die before they take this seriously and supply TB masks and even better PAPRs! And who is going to replace all these health care workers at the front lines!
COVID-19 is not airborne by nature, the particles are sized larger than tuberculosis and smaller than influenza. The only time it is airborne is when you are providing a treatment that aerosolizes respiratory droplets, suck as a nebulizer, a bronch, intubation, or using BiPAP. Then, use of an N95 mask is the level of protection required, otherwise the pathogen is considered to be transmitted as droplet requiring droplet precautions. (Gloves, gown, surgical mask, and eye protection)
And COUGHING, which is how many of these patients present. ER is full of them coughing in the waiting room, coughing in the exam room.
brandy1017, ASN, RN
2,910 Posts
And don't forget most of us live in at will states where we can be fired for any reason or no reason on the spot and we likewise can quit our jobs for any reason! We are not the mililtary, we are not property of the US govt or any state govt that they can see fit to do with us what they want.
Again there is no reason for this save greed, plain and simple. I work for a national corporation that bragged about their supply chain network, yet our masks, esp TB masks are being kept under lock and key and PAPR's are sitting unused in storage and denied to the nurses working the COVID unit!