I'm a senior nursing student and this debate arose with a couple of my classmates and me. I work as an ER tech and they work as patient care techs on the floor. As of right now, CDC guidelines state for PPE:
Quote
Updated PPE recommendations for the care of patients with known or suspected COVID-19:
Based on local and regional situational analysis of PPE supplies, facemasks are an acceptable alternative when the supply chain of respirators cannot meet the demand. During this time, available respirators should be prioritized for procedures that are likely to generate respiratory aerosols, which would pose the highest exposure risk to HCP.
Facemasks protect the wearer from splashes and sprays.
Respirators, which filter inspired air, offer respiratory protection.
When the supply chain is restored, facilities with a respiratory protection program should return to use of respirators for patients with known or suspected COVID-19. Facilities that do not currently have a respiratory protection program, but care for patients infected with pathogens for which a respirator is recommended, should implement a respiratory protection program.
Eye protection, gown, and gloves continue to be recommended
So basically CDC is saying wear an N95 if you have it, but if you don't, wear a surgical mask until you can get an N95.
So if you have a suspected or confirmed COVID-19 patient, and all you have is a surgical mask and no N95, can you refuse to take care of that patient? Do you face any legal repercussions or potential fallout from your employer if you do refuse? Asking not only about tech positions, but RN positions as well.
being 70+ years and with two comorbid conditions that would likely cause me to die if covid 19 were contracted, I have had to consider that this might be the hill I die on... and in particular when N95 masks are not made available to me. I have one lung, I have diabetes, and I have a progressive lung disease that puts me on steroids. What say you.... is my choice really to only surrender my license or die?
Resign and open a business training CNAs, as the next 2 years or so will require huge numbers. Or look for something in telehealth, answering phone calls is about all I could contribute. Or sit down and start recording everything you can remember related to your career in nursing, both good and bad, and I can guarantee you will be able to sell it on Amazon Kindle for a recurring income. Don't worry about your writing ability, others can write from your recordings, the gold is in your story!
Of course I hope that we don't lose too many nurses but we will be in serious trouble if we lose too many doctors. I definitey feel we should have PPE but please make sure they get it first (ED/critical care doctors).
Specializes in ICU,Tele,Interventional Radiology,PACU,Research.
1 hour ago, eakirlin said:
being 70+ years and with two comorbid conditions that would likely cause me to die if covid 19 were contracted, I have had to consider that this might be the hill I die on... and in particular when N95 masks are not made available to me. I have one lung, I have diabetes, and I have a progressive lung disease that puts me on steroids. What say you.... is my choice really to only surrender my license or die?
Dear Eakirlin,
Firstly,thank you for the many years of service you have provided in our profession. I agree your experiences would be a best seller that I would love to read.
Secondly, you should not have to choose between your health and your job. Are nurses really being told to surrender their licenses if they refuse to work? I need to research the legal basis of this.
Thirdly,based on your history you have shared,you are at high risk for COVID-19. That should qualify you for some form of unemployment benefit.I dont know what is your situation but my advice is to use your PTO,FMLA,resign, or whatever means necessary to stay home and take care of you......that should be your priority.
Lastly, I agree. This is temporary and when it is all over you will find another way another way to use your skills and experience.
Some agencies seem to be behaving this way...not only that they own your license, but that they own YOU. I'm prepared to refuse to work if I'm not provided with proper PPE. I have the same human rights as those lovely non-compliance types who are refusing to wash their hands or practise physical distancing. If the hospital wants me to risk my safety, they can provide PPE. Otherwise, they will have to physically drag me into work, like this:
Your post and video make my day.
Not only physically drag into work BUT ALSO THROUGH the work. I play as a puppet.
Yeah I absolutely believe U.S. nurses are being thrown under the bus. I do not believe that paper surgical masks are protective against airborne virus, which this is. I plan to bring my own N95 to work. If I’m asked to take care of a c-19 I’m gonna wear it under the surgical mask. If my manager doesn’t like that I’m gonna ask for my union rep and they can send me home. They’re offering $90 an hour hazard pay with good ppe for crisis positions. In other hospitals. I’m not planning on letting some admins decision infect me and my fam.
Nurses are dedicated and selfless and that is being used against us. The work from home administrators aren’t going in those rooms with paper masks.
Well spoken Casreye! Moste sensible post I've read thus far. Could not have said it better!
Use your professional assessment/reflection model here...
it makes zero sense to do that, since you could spread the virus to others.
No protection, No care.
I see no way that legally they could take away licenses for that. They are using pressure to make nurses face this in unsafe ways because they are afraid of the breakdown of the hospital/healthcare system.
Use LOGIC, there have already been amazing doctors and nurses that have died. So sad. I'm following the CDC recommendations and ensuring my family who has a member that is on an immunosuppressant is not exposed. I choose to do this to protect her. It is a moral option, not a moral obligation.
I agree. I am a nurse who is refusing to go to go to work due to lack of protective equipment. I would give up the job in a heart beat. My license is not even worth mine and my family's lives but I would fight tooth and nail for it because I don't feel my choice to stand up for my right to safety as a healthcare provider violates any legal or ethical tenets of healthcare.
I do however admire your resolve to continue caring for those in need and I genuinely thank you for your service?
I would refuse to care for patients without proper PPE. What good are you if you get infected? You are going to have to self quarantine. This isn't the military where you will get jail time for refusing orders. Your employer doesn't own you like they do in the military. Bring up safety first. The worst that can happen is you get fired. As an experienced RN you can easily find another job in 2 weeks. You will still keep your license. It's not patient abandonment if you never received report and you refused your assignment on the spot never taking over the patient's care.
Don't worry about losing your license in Oregon. They decide if they follow the CDC and WHO recommendations? HAHA! You can only use the N95 mask so many times before it's protective filter is compromised. It will be a process to strip you of your license in Oregon and they will have so many lawsuits they will wish they never published their statement. Any governing body knowingly endangering the health of employees is asking to be sued. You can't get away with that in the wealthiest nation that is very litigious. And it's the state endangering the health of the nurses not the hospitals. All the lawyer has to do is pull up the state budget of Oregon and they will see they had the money to supply all the hospitals with proper PPE.
Simple. Ask yourself "what would administration do if I broke PPE protocol on a normal Tuesday afternoon, running short staffed, too busy to eat, too stressed to pee, and to nervous to speak about the lack of gowns/masks/protection/"? They would write you up in a heartbeat....
So why stress over principle. We all earned our licenses off principles of humanity. We loose them as well. So what makes it OK for non-lisensed individuals who have nothing to lose but profits to make the rules right now? Can they take your license?
Your job, of course, but so can they on a Tuesday afternoon when "We had a complaint from a family member about your lack of Ice water..."
But we are also not martyrs. We are advocates for health. So lets advocate. Here lies the problem with 1.(Many) Women 2. Nursing hierarchy/leadership/differentiated roles/pettiness, we have a hard time working together, therefore we fight amongst each other an die in the process.
Literally, and nobody cares...but we still do it as a nursing field.
Never as so evident in these times, where we are thrust in the spotlight like no other, to rise up as a profession like the Phoenix and demand respect...and we are spit/coughed in the face with no PPE.
We need to step back, work together as a unit of healthcare providers and advocate for what is right. Because all that we see for this COVID-19 is a everyday Tuesday afternoon, and we are treating it as such.
Stop accepting less than what you know is right. We look really weak right now as a profession, and my heart hurts...but Florence is shaking her head right now. We need to fight for what is right.
Specializes in neuro & cardiac stepdowns, vascular access.
15 hours ago, LovingLife123 said:
First of all, I’m not being sanctimonious, at all. But somebody has to care for these people. Everyone can’t just walk away.
It absolutely sucks that we don’t have PPE. I’m wondering the action that any of you have taken on this, or are you just preparing to refuse at the last minute?
I’ve contacted my senators, my governor, my state representatives concerning this issue of PPE. I’ve been working with my hospital on obtaining more. But I still am going to care for these patients. I refuse to let anyone die alone and die without my best effort.
If you deem that sanctimonious and crazy, so be it. But at least I’m actively working on a resolution to the problem.
if you walk way, your hospital will just hire a traveler and give them crisis/hazard pay to bear the same risks that you currently are. there will always be people willing to do any work for the right $$$. the hospitals just want to save money.
eakirlin
28 Posts
being 70+ years and with two comorbid conditions that would likely cause me to die if covid 19 were contracted, I have had to consider that this might be the hill I die on... and in particular when N95 masks are not made available to me. I have one lung, I have diabetes, and I have a progressive lung disease that puts me on steroids. What say you.... is my choice really to only surrender my license or die?