I'm a senior nursing student and this debate arose with a couple of my classmates and me. I work as an ER tech and they work as patient care techs on the floor. As of right now, CDC guidelines state for PPE:
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Updated PPE recommendations for the care of patients with known or suspected COVID-19:
Based on local and regional situational analysis of PPE supplies, facemasks are an acceptable alternative when the supply chain of respirators cannot meet the demand. During this time, available respirators should be prioritized for procedures that are likely to generate respiratory aerosols, which would pose the highest exposure risk to HCP.
Facemasks protect the wearer from splashes and sprays.
Respirators, which filter inspired air, offer respiratory protection.
When the supply chain is restored, facilities with a respiratory protection program should return to use of respirators for patients with known or suspected COVID-19. Facilities that do not currently have a respiratory protection program, but care for patients infected with pathogens for which a respirator is recommended, should implement a respiratory protection program.
Eye protection, gown, and gloves continue to be recommended
So basically CDC is saying wear an N95 if you have it, but if you don't, wear a surgical mask until you can get an N95.
So if you have a suspected or confirmed COVID-19 patient, and all you have is a surgical mask and no N95, can you refuse to take care of that patient? Do you face any legal repercussions or potential fallout from your employer if you do refuse? Asking not only about tech positions, but RN positions as well.
Specializes in neuro & cardiac stepdowns, vascular access.
11 hours ago, MunoRN said:
"Airborne" transmission refers to a pathogen than remains suspended in the air for extended periods of time, which you correct that Covid doesn't do.
It does commonly transmit from one person to another through the air, often expelled by one person and then inhaled by another, spreading the virus. You only have to receive a few of these viruses to become infected, and even N95's only block 95% of the pathogen. So when a cough can produce anywhere from a few hundred to a few hundred thousand of individual droplets of these pathogens, and it only takes a few to get infected, that's why N95s are considered better than procedure masks, which typically block anywhere from 10 to 50% of these pathogens.
could you link to conclusive evidence supporting the claim that cv can't be airborne? to the contrary, if aerosol-generating procedures require airborne precautions, so should a coughing patient.
Are you an RN or not! If you're going to pick and choose the people you'll deign to help. You're in the wrong business. As a combat medic and now ER RN, I've thought about refusing to care for anyone!
Are you an RN or not! If you're going to pick and choose the people you'll deign to help. You're in the wrong business. As a combat medic and now ER RN, I've thought about refusing to care for anyone!
Great! Just as your brothers and your sisters went to battle with you in the front lines, the ones that ride or die will be with you bedside as well. But please, with all sincerity, remember that mantra when the Tech/CNA/Phlebotomist/LPN/Caregiver are doing their best as well, and do not have advocates...nor PPE either...and they want to know they matter as well, at least to you, their bedside fighter in the trenches.
When you are an RN, you have choices, can choose to not wear PPE. You also rank higher than the CNA that does not have a choice...and still won't have PPE. That is why you do what is right, and don PPE. Not only for yourself, but those who do not have a choice, your patients, and fellow colleagues.
Advocate for the silenced so all voices can be heard. You have already...never forget...and thank you for your service.
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
7 hours ago, ajdizzle43 said:
Great! Just as your brothers and your sisters went to battle with you in the front lines, the ones that ride or die will be with you bedside as well. But please, with all sincerity, remember that mantra when the Tech/CNA/Phlebotomist/LPN/Caregiver are doing their best as well, and do not have advocates...nor PPE either...and they want to know they matter as well, at least to you, their bedside fighter in the trenches.
When you are an RN, you have choices, can choose to not wear PPE. You also rank higher than the CNA that does not have a choice...and still won't have PPE. That is why you do what is right, and don PPE. Not only for yourself, but those who do not have a choice, your patients, and fellow colleagues.
Advocate for the silenced so all voices can be heard. You have already...never forget...and thank you for your service.
All healthcare workers MUST be provided adequate education, training (with practice) and equipment to protect them. Any less is unacceptable.
National Nurses United (NNU) held a press conference on March 5, 2020 regarding a survey conducted of registered nurses and frontline health care staff, revealing that the vast majority of United States hospitals and health care facilities were unprepared to handle and contain cases of COVID-19. They petitioned U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) to adopt an emergency temporary standard to protect health care workers, patients, and the public. There still is NO enforceable OSHA infectious diseases standard exists nationally. (https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/covid-19/standards.html )
The NNU sent the acceptable standards to members of congress, the executive branch, and hospitals. THAT WAS THREE WEEKS AGO! Where are the masks, vents, and everything these brave people to care for patients and stay alive?
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Of government, NNU is asking the following:
All registered nurses and other health care workers must receive the highest level of protection in their workplaces, as determined by the precautionary principle.
The CDC must improve screening criteria and testing capacity to ensure prompt recognition of and response to COVID-19 cases.
The Occupational Safety and Health Administration must promulgate an Emergency Temporary Standard to protect healthcare workers from emerging infectious diseases like COVID-19 as soon as possible.
Congress and the administration must ensure that any vaccine or treatment for COVID-19 that is developed with U.S. taxpayer dollars is provided to the American public when needed for free.
Congress must act immediately to pass an emergency spending package to fund the emergency response to the COVID-19 outbreak.
ZThe "scientific and evidence based criteria" they're referring to is neither of those things. The state's criteria is that procedure masks is sufficient protection.
I'm hearing that NY nurses are refusing to walk through the door unless handed a N95 mask. These masks are magically appearing. In this case you hadn't accepted an assignment yet, correct? I'm assuming they could fire you and ask you to not return though.
I was surprised to see that folks were looking to use the N95 masks, to be honest. This isn't an airborne virus, so unless you're working in an area which has equipment, etc. that could cause it to become airborne I don't see the issue, but it seems I'm in the minority.
Patient care requires you to basically be right in their coughing faces. Coughing produces aerosols.
Are you an RN or not! If you're going to pick and choose the people you'll deign to help. You're in the wrong business. As a combat medic and now ER RN, I've thought about refusing to care for anyone!
Give me proper PPE and I will not "pick and choose" my patients.
I don't support medicare for all so unable to sign but am in perfect agreement with nurses being protected. It's unfortunate that you are aligning your political position with the dire need for PPE and this unprecedented disaster.
lukegail, RN
14 Posts
could you link to conclusive evidence supporting the claim that cv can't be airborne? to the contrary, if aerosol-generating procedures require airborne precautions, so should a coughing patient.
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/03/commentary-covid-19-transmission-messages-should-hinge-science