"TIME BACK" vs. Overtime "PAY"

[Paws4K9s]

I work in an O.R. that has no 3-11 p.m. staff, nor an 11-7 a.m. staff, therefore our 16 hours of call begins at 3 P.M. after working an eight hour day. Frequently, there is more than one room running past 3 P.M., so additional staff is needed besides the call team to finish the scheduled cases. We are reimbursed in "time" rather than $$ for the O.T. For example, if we stay one hour late, then, sometime during that week we are told to leave 1.5 hours early. We do not punch out on the days that we leave early and our manager adjusts our time to reflect a 40 hour work week. So, our unit never shows any "OVERTIME WORKED"...... The "call team" gets paid "call pay..at time and 1/2...put that is reflected as "call $$ on the books, not overtime). Some of us would prefer the $$, rather than having time back, but, there are some people who like being able to leave early as well. Should we be given the OPTION? We are also concerned that by our department never reflecting any "overtime worked" that this may sabotage our efforts in attempting to get more staffing...or a 3-11 staff. Regularly scheduled cases continue to be booked past 3 P.M., in an attempt to increase business..which is understandable....and, with today's economy, the nurses are all willing to be flexible and do their part. We are just wondering if anyone else has ever run across this type of situation and what options we may have with regard to requesting to be paid the O.T. rather than being told to leave early during the week on another day.

Thoughts?

Thank You....

[RNKPCE]

So what if you make an error during the 9th, 10th or 11th hour. According to the hospital time sheet you weren't working. Will your hospital back you in a lawsuit? Just another way to look at things.

Besides it likely being illegal to begin with.

[Paws4K9s]

Anytime that we stay late to finish cases and are not on call.....we always "punch out" as we leave...So, our time clock DOES reflect the hours that we actually worked later than our scheduled day..... So, we are never working "off the clock"....

However....since according to our manager she cannot pay us overtime....or, there is no "overtime" allowed....she tells us to leave early some other day during that same week....When we are told to "leave early" (comp time).....we are told NOT to punch out..... And this way she can adjust the time to make sure that all of the hours add up to "40"..... Since she is giving us comp time back at the "time and 1/2 hourly rate".....if we were to clock out on the days that we left early......than, we would be "short" time.....SINCE...none of this is being noted as "overtime"...... So, the "hours" can't be more than 40, but have to add up to at least 40.

And I think she will say that she isn't actually "altering" our time records because technically, we are being told "not to swipe out" or punch out...and she just fills in the time to equal out the 40 hours. So it is like we "missed" swiping out that day and she just enters the time needed to biring us to the 40 hour mark.

Just concerned with "not swiping" out......even though we were told NOT to by our manager. There is a hospital policy in play that does say that you must clock in and out every day.... SO, then, are we in violation f this policy

and.or I wonder what "code" is being used to manually overide the swiping system when we don't swipe out as we were told. If it is going on our time sheet as a "MS" or "missed swipe"......could that come back and be used against us during evaluation time? Will it reflect that we "missed" swiping....when, in actualiity, it was something that we were TOLD to do my our manager.

We have a great group of nursed working in the O.R. and we all want to work together and be positive....But, at the same time...are we setting ourselves up for any type of disciplanary action because we are NOT swiping out according to hospital policy even though our manager is telling us NOT to? Or, should we ask for something from HR that says that this is acceptable and that they are aware and keep a record of that?

Again....thanks for everyone's input....Alot of good information and very thought provoking.

Thank you all for your time.....

[caliotter3]

Of course anything you do that is not according to Hoyle can be used against you even if you are following the instructions of your employer. That's the stuff that employment lawsuits are made out of. Something to think about.

[CrufflerJJ, BSN, RN, EMT-P]

However....since according to our manager she cannot pay us overtime....or, there is no "overtime" allowed....she tells us to leave early some other day during that same week....When we are told to "leave early" (comp time).....we are told NOT to punch out..... And this way she can adjust the time to make sure that all of the hours add up to "40"..... Since she is giving us comp time back at the "time and 1/2 hourly rate".....if we were to clock out on the days that we left early......than, we would be "short" time.....

What a screwed up system! Imagine how much of a pain it is for the manager, to try & keep track of the weekly hours for all the employees, then figure out how many "give back" hours are needed at 1.5x base hours.

Weird...but probably thought up by a "bright young man" with his shiny new MBA. Immediately followed by him receiving a big bonus or spiffy new Beemer.

[Batman24]

Follow the advice of others and report this ASAP. This is ILLEGAL. Falsifying timecards is ILLEGAL. If you are an hourly employee it is ILLEGAL not to pay O/T.

Your employer not to mention YOU could be facing a HUGE liability should this facility be sued for any reason. You really need to protect yourself here. You could have a major issue should someone sue over an error. You will be shown as off the clock and be on your own. Hospital won't back you and your insurance might fight it too. If you get hurt and need WC or disability good luck with that if you aren't shown as working at that time. You need to rectify this at once and I would get the other nurses involved also. This is an URGENT matter.

And your manager is setting you up asking you to break hospital policy. The hosptial policy trumps your manager. You could be fired and your manager won't back you then as she will be covering her own ass. A call to HR or better yet risk management could help here.

[Paws4K9s]

Batman,

Any time that we are asked to stay late to finish cases, we DO not clock out until we leave...and we do clock out...and THAT time is not altered... BUT, to NOT show OVERTIME, and, to not pay us the O.T., when we leave "early" the next day...we leave at whatever time is equivalent to the "TIME AND 1/2" time.... and so, we have punched IN that morning, but, are told not to swipe out when we leave....this way the manager can "fill in the time" to reflect a 40 hour work week. Otherwise, if we swiped out when we left early...we would be short time... Example: Say, I stay to finish a case until 4 P.M. That would entitle me to 45 minutes of O.T. (30 minutes, plus 1/2 (15 minutes) = 45 minutes. I swipe out at 4:00 P.M. The next day....I swipe in at 7 A.M., and am told to leave 45 minutes early.....(2:45 P.M.) to get my "time" back.....BUT, do NOT swipe out..... This way the manager fills in the blank space to reflect "straight time"....a total of 16 hours worked between the two days. We would NEVER work "off the clock"......because of all the reasons as stated on previous posts.... So she will enter that I left at 3:00 P.M. to make it all "even out"....

It's that "gut" feeling that's inside you that just feels like something isn't quite right here. In the meantime, I am sure that perhaps she has been recognized, perhaps even commended for her department never having any overtime and what an efficient department she runs...

I just could really use the extra $$ right now (can't we all??) and I was just wondering what repurcussions I could possibly anticipate if I question this procedure/practice and just asked to be paid rather than having "comp" time...

Thanks!!

[caliotter3]

Speak up and ask for the pay. If it means that much to you then you should make your needs known. But if you are concerned about repercussions and don't want to jeopardize anything, then don't say anything. In any case, if you don't like the outcome, you can always seek employment elsewhere. Good luck.

[Batman24]

She's still having you do something against hospital policy by not clocking out and I would be very leery of that. Hospital policy trumps what she wants. She is also showing you at the hospital for time you are not there which could lead to another liabilty for you. As you don't clock out you have no real proof as to when you left. This is a bad system. I continue to feel very uncomfortable about all this and think you are being set up for big trouble down the line.

If you are uncomfortable with this you should state why. I think you have very valid concerns. And if you want your O/T you should say that as well. Don't be afraid to speak up. How do others in the department feel?! Perhaps you could all come together as professionals and request a meeting.

[suni, BSN, RN]

I also believe this is a violation of the Labor Laws and I would report it, if your supervisor is doing it does your HR department know that it is happening?

[Paws4K9s]

Dear Batman24.

Thank you again for your time and thoughts. I echo you concern. Another piece to this whole scenario is that of late, our scheduled case load has been decreasing on some days...most likely due to surgery centers opeing in the area and also patients putting off elective surgery during these difficult economic times who might be afraid to take any type of leave of absence during such unpredictable times. On these days, only the number of staff needed to run the rooms that are running can work... say, if there are three rooms running, then only 6 staff members are needed, with one additonal relief person and also the charge person who manages the desk and facilitates the O.R. We have a steady person in charge with that title, so seven staff members are needed for that day. If 10 of us are scheduled to work that day.....and no other department needs help with staffing for that particular day......than, three people are asked to "volunteer" to take the day off......and use their vacation time, or, take the day with out pay..... Since this has been happening more and more.....many of us have depleted our vacation bank, and, do take days off without pay.

But, then, when people are asked to stay "late" to finish cases.....this no longer is "O.T." as, technically, they have not worked 40 hours...if they have a vacation day or DWP listed on their time card.... So, that is one "plus" to getting "comp time" back at time and 1/2 rate....at least the manager hasn't figured that out yet and still gives us back the "time"......at the O.T. rate. (time and 1/2), whereas, if we had swiped out....it wouldn't be considered O.T., just straight time.... So, that is why some people don't mind the leaving early... and being compensated that way....at least in that way....they are getting compensated at the O.T. rate.

It is just a very frustrating time for us all right now.... We as a staff are trying to be flexible and trying to do our part, but, each day, it seems like more and more is asked of us, or, we are but "pawns on a numbers grid"... Ultimately, our patients are our number one priority and we will not compromise patient care in any way.... that remains our focus...and always will be.

However, liability and legal issues and our nursing licenses are key as well. I suppose the best agenda for us now is to follow the proper "chain of command" and raise our concerns to our manager....and see what she says.... Hospital policy violations (not clocking out)..and also, our time sheets being fillled in manually because we did not swipe out that day.... I wonder if the manager enters it that we forgot to "swipe" out as a reason for her manual over-ride into the system....WHICH....that would could be pulled up at evaluation time and perhaps be used "against" us.....i.e., if we "missed swiping in or out"......so many times....could that lower our overall rating with regard to getting a raise and thereby affect our raise percentage? Good points to ponder... And someone had an excellent idea about keeping track of EVERYTHING......for your own records.....JUST in case....

Thanks again for your input and taking the time to share......