"Should Doctors Fire Their Anti-Vaccine Patients?"

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"Perhaps in frustration, doctors have started to "fire" their patients if they refuse to vaccinate. As reported by Shirley Wang in The Wall St. Journal last week, 20-30% of doctors in two different surveys, in Connecticut and the Midwest, reported having to kick patients out of their practices because of vaccine refusal. These numbers have roughly doubled over the past ten years, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/02/25/should-doctors-fire-anti-vaccine/

Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.
That surgeon took an oath to take care of his patients to the best of abilities, not to judge them for their decisions. ...

Are you talking about a surgeon who refused to operate on someone who has an unhealthful life style (for example, the CT surgeon who refuses to perform a CABG/valve/etc. on a smoker)? If said surgeon refuses that operation, it is not a judgement on the part of the surgeon. It's is about wasting time and resources on a person who refuses to be accountable and responsible for their own health.

The issue is even more simple for doctors who fire anti-vaccine patients/families--the doctors don't want unvaccinated patients sitting in their waiting room preparing to be seen. The doctor does not want to be coughed on by someone who has not had any vaccines. It is certainly not about doctors making a judgement on these patients/parents. It is about basic safety of other patients, the staff, the staff's family, the doctor, the doctor's family, and so forth.

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The profit margin for pharmaceutical companies on vaccines is much smaller than the profit margin on medications; many refuse to make vaccines for the reason. That is what that statement refers to I suspect.

Have you had many interactions with drug reps? Not to defend them but the days of the free vacations are long gone; now they actually provide some useful services for patients.

Pharmaceutical profits from swine-flu-related drugs alone have soared – with earnings between $10 billion and $15 billion in 2009, according to estimates from investment bank JPMorgan. (Big Profits Linked to Vaccine Mandates)

... forecast of market size and coverage rates to the year 2016, predicting that due to the "promising commercial potential" of new, high-price vaccines, the pediatric and adolescent vaccine market will quadruple from approximately $4.3 billion in 2006, to over $16 billion by 2016, across the US, the EU-five including France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and the UK, and Japan. (Big Profits Linked to Vaccine Mandates)

Chump Change....

As for the drug reps.. Yes, in fact I have. One of the clinics I worked at before had a rep come in every Thursday for lunch, or with other goodies. Times are tough, maybe you're right...they aren't giving out free vacations.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
Pharmaceutical profits from swine-flu-related drugs alone have soared – with earnings between $10 billion and $15 billion in 2009 according to estimates from investment bank JPMorgan. (Big Profits Linked to Vaccine Mandates) ... forecast of market size and coverage rates to the year 2016, predicting that due to the "promising commercial potential" of new, high-price vaccines, the pediatric and adolescent vaccine market will quadruple from approximately $4.3 billion in 2006, to over $16 billion by 2016, across the US, the EU-five including France, Germany, Italy, Spain, and the UK, and Japan. (Big Profits Linked to Vaccine Mandates) Chump Change.... As for the drug reps.. Yes, in fact I have. One of the clinics I worked at before had a rep come in every Thursday for lunch, or with other goodies. Times are tough, maybe you're right...they aren't giving out free vacations.

Are you a nurse or a nursing student? I only ask because citing a blog by Joseph Mercola as evidence makes me worry about what sort of EBP you might be using.

So you saw a drug rep come to your office with lunch and assume the prescribers are persuaded to write unnecessary scripts by a sandwich and a bag of chips? Did you ever get to sit in on one of these lunches? If you cleave experience with the drug reps I am sure you know of the good things they provide. And it's not that times are tough for pharma companies, they are deplorable for the most part, but laws that prohibit the old-style vacations.

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OK, I understand your skepticism with Joseph Mercola's website.

Here are a couple of other sites.

Who Says There is No Money in Making Vaccines? At Least $5.7 Billion Given to Vaccine Manufacturers in 2011 by US Gov’t

THE LETHAL DANGERS OF THE BILLION-DOLLAR VACCINE BUSINESS WITH GOVERNMENT APPROVAL, DRUG COMPANIES SELL VACCINES THAT CAN LEAVE YOUR CHILD BRAIN DAMAGED, CAN SPREAD POLIO FROM YOUR BABY TO YOU--AND CAN EVEN KILL. SAFER STUFF IS AVAILABLE. HERE'S WHY

The British drug maker GlaxoSmithKline will no longer pay doctors to promote its products and will stop tying compensation of sales representatives to the number of prescriptions doctors write, its chief executive said Monday, effectively ending two common industry practices that critics have long assailed as troublesome conflicts of interest. (

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/17/business/glaxo-says-it-will-stop-paying-doctors-to-promote-drugs.html?_r=0)

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Specializes in Anesthesia.

So Jordan1230 your whole point is that because vaccines are sometimes profitable then there must be a conspiracy about how effective vaccines work?

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Specializes in Anesthesia.

[h=1]"Why Are Pharmaceutical Companies Gradually Abandoning Vaccines?"[/h]

Why Are Pharmaceutical Companies Gradually Abandoning Vaccines?

Basic vaccines vs. new vaccines and profit margins.

Vaccines: A smarter jab | The Economist

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So Jordan1230 your whole point is that because vaccines are sometimes profitable then there must be a conspiracy about how effective vaccines work?

No, wtbcrna. I was just replying to someone who said that these companies don't make money from the vaccines they produce. And of course money would trump effectiveness.

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I live in CT and my daughters peditrician has a notice posted pretty much everywhere a patient/parent will be stating, if the parent/guardian refuses the recommended vaccinations/schedules after being educated by the doctors etc, the patients will be 'fired' from the practice.

They do not 'fire' patients if they do not get the flu shot and other immunizations such as Gardisil.

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"Nobody makes money off basic vaccines"

That has to be the most naive thing I have read yet..... Do you think the pharmaceutical companies manufacture drugs out of the kindness of their heart?

And where did you read this statement above, which you have placed in quotation marks without attribution? Not on this thread -- I just reread the whole thing, since your "quotation" didn't sound familiar to me. A couple people have posted comments about how healthcare providers don't make much money from vaccinating people, since reimbursement is low, which is true. No one on the thread has been talking about profits for pharmaceutical companies until you popped up today with your anti-vaccine advocacy website sources and conspiracy theories. However, it is true, as BostonFNP notes, that pharmaceutical companies make less profit on vaccinations than they do on other types of drugs, which is the reason why so few pharmaceutical companies are willing to make them, and insist on having legal protection from lawsuits related to their use.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
No, wtbcrna. I was just replying to someone who said that these companies don't make money from the vaccines they produce. And of course money would trump effectiveness.

And who does most of the post-marketing surveillance and effectiveness studies for vaccines? They are usually not sponsored or done by drug companies so the whole government and most researchers must be in on this giant effectiveness conspiracy is what you are eluding to?

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Well, if you reread the thread you would have seen the conversation between BostonFNP which is clearly about the the pharmaceutical companies and their profits. You would have also noted, where I took that quote from without "attribution". I strayed a little from the original conversation.

And you're right, I did pop on this recently. I'm not anti-vaccine per se, I'm against mandating something that doesn't work.

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Specializes in Anesthesia.
Well, if you reread the thread you would have seen the conversation between BostonFNP which is clearly about the the pharmaceutical companies and their profits. You would have also noted, where I took that quote from without "attribution". I strayed a little from the original conversation.

And you're right, I did pop on this recently. I'm not anti-vaccine per se, I'm against mandating something that doesn't work.

You keep saying the flu vaccine doesn't work, and you are basing this on what? You need to provide research to back this up, because it is absolutely not true.

Efficacy and effectiveness of influenza va... [Lancet Infect Dis. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

Seasonal influenza vaccines. [Curr Top Microbiol Immunol. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI

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