I had a curious encounter at the doctor's office today. When I went in for my physical, a woman in scrubs came in ahead of the doc. She was wearing scrubs but no name tag. We hadn't met before, so I asked if she was a nurse. Yes, she replied.
I then presented her with paperwork outlining the shots I needed for school. As she looked over the paperwork, she volunteered that she was not a nurse but, in fact, a medical assistant. Oh, really? I replied. Where do you go to school for that? (I was genuinely curious.)
Well, she replied, she didn't go to school. She wasn't a "certified medical assistant," in her words, but "had a lot of experience." In fact, she'd been a CNA for 16 years, but this particular medical practice, as she explained it, "isn't like a hospital and doesn't care if you're ceritified." Hmm. Later on, the doctor sent her back to draw blood.
What would your reaction be? Obviously, she called herself a nurse, and she isn't one. (I wonder if she would have volunteered that info had she not seen my paperwork.) She called herself a medical assistant, then volunteered that she wasn't credentialed. I know nothing about MAs. Is that kosher? And what level of license does someone have to hold to be allowed to draw blood? (For what it's worth, this is the only person I've dealt with in many years at this doctor's office who wasn't wearing a name tag with credentials. Is there any kind of identification requirement?)
I'd never let her touch me because she was fraudulent!!! If she lied about her qualifications, then what else has she lied about??
Exactly! and even if she didn't lie, but was just not smart enough to know what her title was, I'm not sure that makes me confident in her abilities either.
Sorry but I have never met a MA that didn't know that they were a MA, and not a nurse. [b'] I wonder how MDs would respond if groups of people that were less trained and were unlicensed, began representing themselves as Drs? [/b]How would lawyers respond if paralegals represented themselves as attorneys? The proverbial poo would hit the fan....Why as nurses, have we allowed this unlicensed, largely unregulated group of people to practice in many ways as nurses? I've seen MAs give injections, call in drugs, even TRIAGE, provide wound care, give medications, do IVs, etc.....Honestly nurses should be ashamed for allowing this, we should of protected our patients and our jobs better. Yes, some MAs are great and very knowledgable, but they are UNLICENSED, and are not held to the professional standard of a nurse.
*Off soap-box now
No need to wonder. Head over to SDN and see the multiple "who gets to wear a white coat", "who gets to be called 'doctor'", "CRNA/AA doesn't = MDA" "NP/PA are not doctors", "nurses and DNP degree" "should we call a pharmacist DR.___" threads. It goes on and on and not just the medical students are having a cow over "lesser educated" individuals being called or treated as Physicians.
Somewhere in the brocheure, the text books, the class codes for the school you will find the the words "medical assisting" somewhere. I won't even begin to get into the fact that you are saying that there are WORKING MA's out there that are dumb enough to NOT KNOW WHAT DEGREE THEY WENT TO SCHOOL FOR! :uhoh21: Again, I can't believe that anyone who has a 4th grade level of reading comprehension would not be able to understand that they are not an actual "nurse". They might want to get into the "i can do everything a nurse can do" debate, but they know that their title is not "nurse". It's like saying that a Physician's assistant is going to graduate PA school and suddenly think they went to medical school and are now physicians. The public needs education for sure, but the average person also is able to discern what their educational title is and what degree they went to school for. The fact that you are saying you know some people who honestly just can't figure this out is astonishing....and more than a little scary.
Well........ I don't know any PA's. I do know some MA's. The only ones that I've never heard refer to themselves as nurses are the ones who work with RN's.
Like I said before, maybe I have been associated with some dim bulbs.
I am just telling you my experience with about three MA's and ONE school, don't shoot the messenger.
But all of your posts in this thread have defended all MAs[/quote
Man, we sure know how to get off topic.
Last post to this thread.
1. This woman may or may not have been trying to be deceptive.
2. I know for a fact some people, MA's included, think they are "just like nurses" and justified in calling themselves such.
3. I STILL think it's silly to run out the door of a clinic just because someone mistakenly called themselves a nurse, but that's just me. They'd have to do worse than that, not much worse, but it'd have to be worse.
In common usage "nurse" often means someone taking care another without regard to qualifications. It tends to be used a catch-all category for any kind of health-related assistance that isn't doctoring. Kinda like the term "customer service representative." This terms is vague. They could be referring to a cashier, salesperson, call center personnel, or the like.
"...
Again, you and CRNAsomeday are saying the same thing but I will repeat myself: The common usage of nurse to YOU means the above. To those of use that ARE nurses it means having a license. Again, just the word nurse IS A PROTECTED title in some states. In some states it is a CRIME to LIE and say you are a nurse if you are not. Not that you are an RN but actually saying "I'm a nurse" if you're not.
And please, no comparisons to customer service reps! haven't you been reading the recent threads here on that subject??
I'd never let her touch me because she was fraudulent!!! If she lied about her qualifications, then what else has she lied about??
Yes Yes Miss Tazzi!!
JJJoy, has the right idea and a very cleaver one at that. Instead of arguing amongst ourselves, we need to address the problem.
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Yes we DO need to address the problem by educating the public, we've already said that. But from reading this thread it also seems like we may need to educate more than just the public. If you are saying that THAT many MA's don't know what they are, well that's scary.
I might be the only one, but I agree with you!
I'm not concerned that the MA who calls herself a nurse is going to inject battery acid into me because she's an incompetent liar.
Ok, I am really not trying to be disrespectful in any way but I am curious. I know that you and CRNA are both students and you both seem to have the same kind of whatever attitude towards this. You really don't care that unlicensed personnel is misrepresenting herself AND performing functions out of her scope of practice?
I take pride in my education and my license and career. That is why this topic is sensitive with me. I would really hope that our new nurses feel the same sense of pride as well.
Again, you and CRNAsomeday are saying the same thing but I will repeat myself: The common usage of nurse to YOU means the above. To those of use that ARE nurses it means having a license. Again, just the word nurse IS A PROTECTED title in some states. In some states it is a CRIME to LIE and say you are a nurse if you are not. Not that you are an RN but actually saying "I'm a nurse" if you're not.
And please, no comparisons to customer service reps! haven't you been reading the recent threads here on that subject??
Yes Yes Miss Tazzi!!
Yes we DO need to address the problem by educating the public, we've already said that. But from reading this thread it also seems like we may need to educate more than just the public. If you are saying that THAT many MA's don't know what they are, well that's scary.
Ok, I am really not trying to be disrespectful in any way but I am curious. I know that you and CRNA are both students and you both seem to have the same kind of whatever attitude towards this. You really don't care that unlicensed personnel is misrepresenting herself AND performing functions out of her scope of practice?
I take pride in my education and my license and career. That is why this topic is sensitive with me. I would really hope that our new nurses feel the same sense of pride as well.
Man, I said I was thru:o.
What is outside a MA's practice?
Yes, I do care, very much so.
Really, what IS a MA's scope of practice?
I hope we learn about this is Leadership or Issues and Trends, those are the only two classes I am not sure of the actual content. I care very much about people claiming to be what they are not, I don't want to leave you with that impression, I just know what I've heard in others. And no, it's not a LOT of MA's, when I think about it, it was only those three people and I only still talk to one of them and she doesn't think she is a nurse anymore, believe me.
BTW, I think that school is closed down. I am telling you, the recruiter was this guy who went on and on about how you'd end up a nurse. Maybe something was amiss.
LOL... this post is great... the reason this MA probably said yes when you asked if she was a nurse was because she assumed you were a regular person that wouldn't know the difference between a tech, MA, CNA, LVN, RN (ASN), RN (BSN), NP, PA, etc. The way most people that aren't familiar with healthcare see it is you are a nurse or a doctor, plain and simple. I'm sure no ill intent was ment. Also, many Doctor's offices and hospitals don't require certifications, but do on the job training for phlebotomy and MAs. If you say that you would have asked to speak to the office manager because of a little thing like that, you need to step back, take a deep breath, and realize that you've been a nurse for WAY too long and have become a "healthcare snob". I agree, I do it too sometimes, but, seriously, it doesn't take four years of college to draw blood.
It is the patient's right to know the relevant licensure and credentials of the person providing their care. If they live in a black and white "nurse or doctor" world, it is our responsiblitiy as health care workers to educate them about _all_ of the resources we have available in the modern world--and diverse healthcare staff is one of the greatest resources. If any of the above mentioned healthcare personnel is involved with a patient in any way, the patient has a right to know who they are, what they do, and why they are doing what they are doing. While some people look at these "letters" and see hierarchy and status, the reality is that each of these is a member of the healthcare team with a specific role that they are trained to do. I don't want to think about what life would be like at my hospital if members of any of these licensed or certified groups were to disappear. If we need them for what they do, it follows that they deserve respect for the specialized knowledge they DO have.
If we don't communicate our roles to our patients, we are not doing our jobs.
Ok, I am really not trying to be disrespectful in any way but I am curious. I know that you and CRNA are both students and you both seem to have the same kind of whatever attitude towards this. You really don't care that unlicensed personnel is misrepresenting herself AND performing functions out of her scope of practice?
I take pride in my education and my license and career. That is why this topic is sensitive with me. I would really hope that our new nurses feel the same sense of pride as well.
I'm already proud to be a future RN. I hope I never get to the point where I need to put other people's flaws/shortcomings on a platform to feed my pride.
The majority of RNs I encounter at my place of employment (animal hospital) seem to be total blockheads who think they know everything and are better than everyone. I have no idea where the attitude comes from, but I'm definitely not the only one who's noticed it. Of course, we have a few who are always polite and respectful. Those are the nurses that make me want to be a nurse, too. I think they do more for elevating the profession than the nurses out on witch hunts for "fake nurses" and other evils do.
Oh jeez, between fatigue and blondeness I think my brain is just about gone. I thought that MA's couldn't give injections but then realized that it was CNA's that couldn't. Oops.
I'm already proud to be a future RN. I hope I never get to the point where I need to put other people's flaws/shortcomings on a platform to feed my pride.(not nice:nono: )
The majority of RNs I encounter at my place of employment (animal hospital) seem to be total blockheads who think they know everything and are better than everyone. I have no idea where the attitude comes from, but I'm definitely not the only one who's noticed it. Of course, we have a few who are always polite and respectful. Those are the nurses that make me want to be a nurse, too. I think they do more for elevating the profession than the nurses out on witch hunts for "fake nurses" and other evils do.
Ok, I'm really glad that the pride is there and I hope you do well. I really do. I know that I and I'm quite sure that many of the other nurses here are not out on any witch hunts. If standing up for our profession AND patients makes us wrong, well I don't wanna be right!
See, when we as licensed professionals sit back and do nothing, say nothing, well that puts a stamp of approval on it. Then unlicensed personnel moves in and takes our jobs. Many offices/clinics already use them now instead of nurses. Is that good? Is that SAFE for our patients? Not all the time. So this goes WAY beyond vanity or pride. I see it as a domino effect. That is why I implore students and new nurses to think about stuff like this.
You guys are just starting out. Do you want to have a career? If none of you stand up what do you think will happen? Yes sure, I know you are probably rolling your eyes at this but I'm trying to show you something here. There are a LOT of people like the one in the OP's post. Many that lie about their status. Plan now for what you will say/do when you experience it. Please do/say SOMETHING.
Oh jeez, between fatigue and blondeness I think my brain is just about gone. I thought that MA's couldn't give injections but then realized that it was CNA's that couldn't. Oops.
I'm not trying to get anything fired up, but I was offered the opportunity to do flu shots at Wal-Mart once thru my nurse agency. I didn't get to do it because it was on a Saturday. Anyway, I thought they had made a mistake and thought they were calling an LPN or RN for the assignment.
I was informed I could do it because I was under the LPN's supervision.
If they were lying to me, I see I need to know these regualtions for myself. I'm glad I didn't get to go.
smk1, LPN
2,195 Posts
Exactly! and even if she didn't lie, but was just not smart enough to know what her title was, I'm not sure that makes me confident in her abilities either.