OK, something here that has been bugging me for a while (along with other, more recent events that rankle as well). I never noticed it as much as an RN, because I never worked at a clinic for any length of time, but I am beginning to be of the opinion that everyone that darkens our door in the healthcare setting is only out for what they can get, at no cost to them.
Back when I graduated NP school, I was working for a doc who had a sample closet the size of my laundry room. Not big enough to park a yacht in, mind you, but HUGE for what it was for. Floor-to-ceiling shelves just covered in sample meds. The drug reps came by frequently, brought lunch most days, and always tried to keep us stocked. It was unreal. This doc would bag up handfuls of meds for people, usually the entire stock of what had just been delivered, and hand it off. I was amazed at how nice this seemed, but whan I got into the workings of it, I was appalled.
I would say that roughly 90% of her patients would come in and ask for sample refills. AT LEAST that many, and probably more. People would come in for rechecks and ask for more samples. People would get fighting mad when we either did not have what they needed in samples or were out (I am so sorry that Septra is not in a sample, it's on the $4 list!). Add into that that we got into trouble for attempting to ration the samples, so that MORE patients could share the wealth. People would refuse to take anything unless they got samples, saying that they could not afford it, but yet would have an iPhone, iPod, ICarly, nails, hair done to a fare-thee-well, and all the other various accoutrements that you could buy a house with in possession.
Two cases stuck out in my mind:
* A man and his wife who were, shall we say, quite healthy, were frequent flyers here. They each had several major health concerns, mostly due to their respective weights. The male was taking a very new, very expensive medication that we were hard pressed to get samples of, and he knew that we would give him first dig. One day, doc handed me the 2 sample boxes to give to him, all we had, and when I walked in, I get a baleful look and "Just TWO boxes?" Now, what I SHOULD have done is snatch them right back and tell him that since he obviously does not appreciate it, then he does not get it, like you would a child. What I DID do was explain that that was all we had. Neither of these folks worked, they refused to take steps to better their health, and they expected everything to be handed to them.
*A very ill gentleman (and I use the term loosely) brought his mother in with him for his visit. He had an infection for which she prescribed Septra. The mother told me "Well, we'll need samples of that." I explained that it was a very old med, and that there were no samples available, and she replied that he would not be taking anything, then. I never heard how he did.
Again when I went to my family doc to precept, I was shocked. He actually had people call and complain because the samples were not BIG enough! I have seen the same man for 25 years, have never once asked for a sample, have been grateful for what I have been given, and went on my merry way. It never occurred to me to ask or complain. When I ran out of samples, if they worked, I asked for a script. I though that was how it went. Silly me.
This blows my mind. We go all out to prescribe whatever the cheapest, most effective med is for what ails them, and if it is not free, they don't want it.
I know it can't just be here. Is it this bad where everyone else works?
Be calm, my friend. I think that the original idea was tongue in cheek. Sometimes we need a little humor to keep from crying.
It didn't feel like that to me, and it struck a cord with many keys.....
Laughing is healing, but I can't laugh at a lot of the posts there. I did like yours.
I am a very giving person, yet due to a sudden illness and illegal acts of employers (age discrimination), I found myself unable to maintain my stance that samples of medications increased their cost. Ironically, because of the cost of my meds ($1500/month) I was unable to maintain my lifestyle. In order to stay alive, I had to accept and ask for them, and I was very disappointed when there weren't enough samples to keep my s/s at bay. It certainly wasn't because I wanted a "free ride" in life, that I took them!
Life's twists and turns can be terrifying, and when reverses occurred and it was necessary to adjust my self image, I did what was necessary. Others do that, too and shouldn't be ridiculed as the OP did.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
It didn't feel like that to me, and it struck a cord with many keys.....
Laughing is healing, but I can't laugh at a lot of the posts there. I did like yours.
I am a very giving person, yet due to a sudden illness and illegal acts of employers (age discrimination), I found myself unable to maintain my stance that samples of medications increased their cost. Ironically, because of the cost of my meds ($1500/month) I was unable to maintain my lifestyle. In order to stay alive, I had to accept and ask for them, and I was very disappointed when there weren't enough samples to keep my s/s at bay. It certainly wasn't because I wanted a "free ride" in life, that I took them!
Life's twists and turns can be terrifying, and when reverses occurred and it was necessary to adjust my self image, I did what was necessary. Others do that, too and shouldn't be ridiculed as the OP did.
That's a lot to go through! I know you've heard this already-- but that http://www.pparxor.org helped me with hundreds of dollars in drug costs for my daughter. At the time, Advair inhaler was about $200, Singulair very expensive, too. Got breaks from both companies.
Don't feel bad about asking for samples! We didn't write the laws that left so many of us to fall between the cracks. Also, think the cost of Research and Development drives the price up more than just the samples do. Marketing another huge expense for them.
so what do you do about noncompliant patients who are uninsured, and can't afford $10/dose, as that is what many psychotropic drugs cost?
i can tell you that they become a ward of the state. if a person cannot afford a medication, most will only purchase them once if at all and usually not the whole prescription. i tell that doctor straight up what i can afford. they also need to realize that many times samples are a finite supply, therefore they are limited. so giving a couple of rounds of samples are fine to see if they work. however, eventually the patient is going to have to buy the medication from the pharmacy. sure some medications are covered by patient assistance, however not everyone qualifies for patient assistance. i no longer qualify as i'm single with no dependents. i make too much money. however occasionally i make little enough to qualify for a percentage off. yes this is a screwed up system.
Went to the N.P. at the office where I go and she gave me some samples of Celebrex and a prescription for same, "in case you want to pay for it." I was a little miffed until I actually filled the Rx. My United Healthcare policy deductible on that particular med was $78 for 30 caps. I can see how people might appreciate a few freebies! However, I have noticed that many old people really dig free stuff, and will load up on anything offered gratis. We chuckle abiout this at Health Fairs and such, knowing full well that we may live long enough to do the same thing! Merry Christmas to all!
This is just another example of the society we live in now. It seems the only people that appreciate the help they get are the people that don't usually get help. The society in the US seems to be acting more and more like they are just entitled to whatever they want without having to work for it or give anything back in return (even appreciation for what they get). Hospitals are no exception to this trend either. It's their way or the highway. My experience with hospitals and the general public has been "Give me what I want and screw you no-matter what." DISGUSTING!! Something needs to change!! Who's going to change it if the people in the US don't start to stand up. Our country is still a democracy isn't it?
OK, something here that has been bugging me for a while (along with other, more recent events that rankle as well). I never noticed it as much as an RN, because I never worked at a clinic for any length of time, but I am beginning to be of the opinion that everyone that darkens our door in the healthcare setting is only out for what they can get, at no cost to them.
Back when I graduated NP school, I was working for a doc who had a sample closet the size of my laundry room. Not big enough to park a yacht in, mind you, but HUGE for what it was for. Floor-to-ceiling shelves just covered in sample meds. The drug reps came by frequently, brought lunch most days, and always tried to keep us stocked. It was unreal. This doc would bag up handfuls of meds for people, usually the entire stock of what had just been delivered, and hand it off. I was amazed at how nice this seemed, but whan I got into the workings of it, I was appalled.
I would say that roughly 90% of her patients would come in and ask for sample refills. AT LEAST that many, and probably more. People would come in for rechecks and ask for more samples. People would get fighting mad when we either did not have what they needed in samples or were out (I am so sorry that Septra is not in a sample, it's on the $4 list!). Add into that that we got into trouble for attempting to ration the samples, so that MORE patients could share the wealth. People would refuse to take anything unless they got samples, saying that they could not afford it, but yet would have an iPhone, iPod, ICarly, nails, hair done to a fare-thee-well, and all the other various accoutrements that you could buy a house with in possession.
Two cases stuck out in my mind:
* A man and his wife who were, shall we say, quite healthy, were frequent flyers here. They each had several major health concerns, mostly due to their respective weights. The male was taking a very new, very expensive medication that we were hard pressed to get samples of, and he knew that we would give him first dig. One day, doc handed me the 2 sample boxes to give to him, all we had, and when I walked in, I get a baleful look and "Just TWO boxes?" Now, what I SHOULD have done is snatch them right back and tell him that since he obviously does not appreciate it, then he does not get it, like you would a child. What I DID do was explain that that was all we had. Neither of these folks worked, they refused to take steps to better their health, and they expected everything to be handed to them.
*A very ill gentleman (and I use the term loosely) brought his mother in with him for his visit. He had an infection for which she prescribed Septra. The mother told me "Well, we'll need samples of that." I explained that it was a very old med, and that there were no samples available, and she replied that he would not be taking anything, then. I never heard how he did.
Again when I went to my family doc to precept, I was shocked. He actually had people call and complain because the samples were not BIG enough! I have seen the same man for 25 years, have never once asked for a sample, have been grateful for what I have been given, and went on my merry way. It never occurred to me to ask or complain. When I ran out of samples, if they worked, I asked for a script. I though that was how it went. Silly me.
This blows my mind. We go all out to prescribe whatever the cheapest, most effective med is for what ails them, and if it is not free, they don't want it.
I know it can't just be here. Is it this bad where everyone else works?
At least you are getting help from your provider. I am gay so EVERY time I go to a provider I get an AIDS test and sent on my way regardless of what my complaint is. More often than not I have to do all the research and footwork to figure out what is going on with me and either ride it out or go back and insist that I'm given what I need to correct the problem. Like I said in my other post related to this topic, the only people that seem to appreciate help are those who don't normally find themselves on the receiving end of good care. I look forward to the day when I'm heard for my complaint and not for what I am.
It didn't feel like that to me, and it struck a cord with many keys.....
Laughing is healing, but I can't laugh at a lot of the posts there. I did like yours.
I am a very giving person, yet due to a sudden illness and illegal acts of employers (age discrimination), I found myself unable to maintain my stance that samples of medications increased their cost. Ironically, because of the cost of my meds ($1500/month) I was unable to maintain my lifestyle. In order to stay alive, I had to accept and ask for them, and I was very disappointed when there weren't enough samples to keep my s/s at bay. It certainly wasn't because I wanted a "free ride" in life, that I took them!
Life's twists and turns can be terrifying, and when reverses occurred and it was necessary to adjust my self image, I did what was necessary. Others do that, too and shouldn't be ridiculed as the OP did.
You didn't. The obvious point of your posts (and the whole thread) was widely missed by some. People that demand free samples constantly, that don't need them, that EXPECT them, are very different from those that have a genuine need due to financial problems, or who are offered them based on having them try them to ascertain effectiveness/side effects before committing to a longer course of treatment. If someone took your post as a jab at ANYONE who has used a free sample at some point in time, that is NOT your fault.
I think you are right. I grew up in an area with a high poverty area. After being in school and having a "career day" I asked one kid that lived down the road what they wanted to be. She responded with "nothing, I'm going to get on welfare like my parents." Parents NEED to instill a good work ethic in their children!
This is ever so slightly off topic but, I'm gonna throw it out there, anyway:
I have always felt that there should be a component to American education addressing something this thread touches upon: work ethic.
The entitlement that posters have discussed here is often a glaring symptom of the fact that people do not want to work-- in fact, they have an expectation that their needs and wants will be somehow magically addressed without their own hard work.
Frankly, parents often pass this attitude on to their children. If parents who do not work themselves cannot be relied upon to teach work ethic, perhaps it's time that educational institutions took this subject up in a serious way.
Again, this may seem off-base, but it has implications for the delivery of, and personal responsibility for, healthcare as a whole.
But most folks overseas pay taxes to the tune of about 60% so they can have government healthcare. Our system needs reform, but I would like to see reform coupled with TIMELY QUALITY care. Is this scenario possible or even probable in some other countries: Friday night chest pain at home and trip to ER at 10 PM; evaluated by cardiologist same night; in surgical ward to await cath by 0300; worked into cath schedule within 12 hours; surgical team alerted to possible CABG sent home by lunch on Sunday with new meds and follow-up appointments. I hate a lot of things about our system, but I don't think that would have occured in many places.
A bit of myth busting: I grew up in Norway, one of the countries with the dreaded socialized medicine, and most people wouldn't pay more than between 28 and 36% per cent tax. Some with pay packets in the higher percentiles would pay close to 50%, but the 60% mentioned above is unrealistic.
That buys you free health care, free schools and universities, excellent free support for people with disabilities and so on. And no, there are no forced communal housing estates or death panels;p
In terms of quality, I don't think the Norwegian health system is any better or worse than comparable countries. I live in Australia now, and even though there is a higher focus on private health care provision here, I haven't seen too much difference in the experience as a patient.
The free ride thing I think is pretty universal though. I'm starting a graduate entry nursing degree in a month so I'm sure I'll have many experiences like the ones in this thread in the years to come.
Absolutely not. I appreciate your bringing this subject up. On my medsurg unit, every day I encounter a patient or family member who is ENTITLED to anything and EVERYTHING his/her heart desires. And by that I mean, when they come in the hospital, they know that if they throw a fit and act like a badly spoiled 10 year old not getting their way, they know that mgmt will say, "What a bad nurse! How DARE she/he not fluff your pillows, not disregard your NPO orders, not order trays for your 20 family members! Shame on her! She will be disciplined!" Maybe it's just management at my hospital.
Let me concede that we all know it is not the dying, truly ill patient that is this way. It is the one that's in for the 4th time this month for their demerol/Diet Pepsi/get me through till the check comes in/you must bow to me because it's your job and I can get you fired if I want to person. Understand, I have the utmost compassion and am willing to bend over backwards for the patient that truly needs it.
A similar, fitting statement that I read on another post a while back: What if these same people came into McDonald's and screamed, cussed, threw things, demanded, etc.? Do you think McD's mgmt would offer them a coupon for a free Big Mac? Of course not. They would call the police.
It seems to me that a big part of the entitlement problem is our society's general attitude of laziness and selfishness. These people do not know how to think of others that might be worse off. I try to remember that all they know is rudeness and hatefulness and being demanding. Sure is hard sometimes.
Another big component is the doctors' willingness to hand out whatever treatments it takes to grease the squeaky wheel (but I absolutely think that patients should be their own advocates). Until some, not all, doctors grow a backbone, the demands will only increase.
And, like so many of you, I am SO frustrated that the ones who really need us the most can't get help because of all the Gimmie Jimmies out there.
But most folks overseas pay taxes to the tune of about 60% so they can have government healthcare. Our system needs reform, but I would like to see reform coupled with TIMELY QUALITY care. Is this scenario possible or even probable in some other countries: Friday night chest pain at home and trip to ER at 10 PM; evaluated by cardiologist same night; in surgical ward to await cath by 0300; worked into cath schedule within 12 hours; surgical team alerted to possible CABG sent home by lunch on Sunday with new meds and follow-up appointments. I hate a lot of things about our system, but I don't think that would have occured in many places.
Actually, it happens in my system quite frequently.
I'm just one of those nasty universally cared for Canadians. I don't pay 60%, closer to 30% on my income. I think my husband is in the 35% bracket.
Just tell me where the 60% bracket is so that working there can be avoided.
Emergent care is a priority. We serve them all the same, rich or poor. Wealthy or homeless.
lamazeteacher
2,170 Posts
It didn't feel like that to me, and it struck a cord with many keys.....
Laughing is healing, but I can't laugh at a lot of the posts there. I did like yours.
I am a very giving person, yet due to a sudden illness and illegal acts of employers (age discrimination), I found myself unable to maintain my stance that samples of medications increased their cost. Ironically, because of the cost of my meds ($1500/month) I was unable to maintain my lifestyle. In order to stay alive, I had to accept and ask for them, and I was very disappointed when there weren't enough samples to keep my s/s at bay. It certainly wasn't because I wanted a "free ride" in life, that I took them!
Life's twists and turns can be terrifying, and when reverses occurred and it was necessary to adjust my self image, I did what was necessary. Others do that, too and shouldn't be ridiculed as the OP did.