"Force Feed"

ceecel.dee, MSN, RN · Apr 28, 2003

72 yo patient, 12 days post hemicolectomy, ileus 5 days post-op. Finally up and around, but p.o. intake poor. Patient weights 125#, so no reserve there. Also PSA 500+, so he definately has other issues!

Surgeon writes: Force Feed.

This patient is alert and oriented x 3, very able and competent to make decisions and understand his options. Just how are we to "force feed" this man? Does he really expect a nurse to sit at the bedside and nag until his plate is clean, or to force a syringe between clenched teeth to do the deed?

Even a feeding tube requires the patient's consent!

What do you think about force feeding?

:eek: :confused:

ktwlpn, LPN · Apr 28, 2003

Originally posted by ceecel.dee
72 yo patient, 12 days post hemicolectomy, ileus 5 days post-op. Finally up and around, but p.o. intake poor. Patient weights 125#, so no reserve there. Also PSA 500+, so he definately has other issues!
Surgeon writes: Force Feed.
This patient is alert and oriented x 3, very able and competent to make decisions and understand his options. Just how are we to "force feed" this man? Does he really expect a nurse to sit at the bedside and nag until his plate is clean, or to force a syringe between clenched teeth to do the deed?
Even a feeding tube requires the patient's consent!
What do you think about force feeding?

well-I think the surgeon is an AZZ....."force feeding" this fella would be assault and battery,wouldn't it? I am sure that you are doing all that you can with supplements and goodies and maybe an appetite stimulant if not contra-indicated...Docs just hate to not be in control....I remeber well the days of "syringe feeding" in ltc-until the dept of health decided it is force feeding and against the rights of the residents.....And there was no dignity there-when the day comes that I can not sit up,chew and swallow then that's IT for me....

ktwlpn, LPN · Apr 28, 2003

Originally posted by ceecel.dee
72 yo patient, 12 days post hemicolectomy, ileus 5 days post-op. Finally up and around, but p.o. intake poor. Patient weights 125#, so no reserve there. Also PSA 500+, so he definately has other issues!
Surgeon writes: Force Feed.
This patient is alert and oriented x 3, very able and competent to make decisions and understand his options. Just how are we to "force feed" this man? Does he really expect a nurse to sit at the bedside and nag until his plate is clean, or to force a syringe between clenched teeth to do the deed?
Even a feeding tube requires the patient's consent!
What do you think about force feeding?

well-I think the surgeon is an AZZ....."force feeding" this fella would be assault and battery,wouldn't it? I am sure that you are doing all that you can with supplements and goodies and maybe an appetite stimulant if not contra-indicated...Docs just hate to not be in control....I remeber well the days of "syringe feeding" in ltc-until the dept of health decided it is force feeding and against the rights of the residents.....And there was no dignity there-when the day comes that I can not sit up,chew and swallow then that's IT for me....

susanmary · Apr 29, 2003

To start, your patient needs a nutrition consult. He may also have some depression (small wonder -- doesn't mean he's got major psych issues -- but depression might be caused by his surgery, and prostate cancer. He needs support -- not ultimatums.

I would refer this case to your manager, and the ethics committee. Encourage a patient to eat, wonderful. Assist a patient with meals & snacks, wonderful. Force feed a patient -- never. Unethical, humiliating. Does he have any family? I would also start documenting verbatim when the patient states he is not hungry, etc, & his refusal to be "force fed."

Our patients deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. This kind of case makes me very sad -- but I would follow up the chain of command if he were my patient. Good luck. He's lucky to have such a caring, compassionate patient advocate for a nurse!!!!

Sue

susanmary · Apr 29, 2003

To start, your patient needs a nutrition consult. He may also have some depression (small wonder -- doesn't mean he's got major psych issues -- but depression might be caused by his surgery, and prostate cancer. He needs support -- not ultimatums.

I would refer this case to your manager, and the ethics committee. Encourage a patient to eat, wonderful. Assist a patient with meals & snacks, wonderful. Force feed a patient -- never. Unethical, humiliating. Does he have any family? I would also start documenting verbatim when the patient states he is not hungry, etc, & his refusal to be "force fed."

Our patients deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. This kind of case makes me very sad -- but I would follow up the chain of command if he were my patient. Good luck. He's lucky to have such a caring, compassionate patient advocate for a nurse!!!!

Sue

renerian, BSN, RN · Apr 29, 2003

God awful..............how about hyperal/MVI?

renerian

renerian, BSN, RN · Apr 29, 2003

God awful..............how about hyperal/MVI?

renerian

Flynurse · Apr 29, 2003

I thought the term force feed had become extinct. Literally.

Not since I very first became an aide in 1998 have I actually seen that written on a piece of paper.

Flynurse · Apr 29, 2003

I thought the term force feed had become extinct. Literally.

Not since I very first became an aide in 1998 have I actually seen that written on a piece of paper.

gwenith, BSN, RN · Apr 29, 2003

Force feeding is assualt and battery and you have a right to refuse to carry out a medical order that contravenes your personal beliefs and or the law of the land. I would tell the doctor this, invite him to take the issue up with management but you yourself are not going to be part of it.

Legally you have this right of refusal. No-one can force you to perofrm a task that is contrary to the interests of the patient or runs counter to your beliefs. (i.e. A Catholic nurse cannot be forced to assist in an abortion even if it is legal to do so in that state). Unless it is clearly illegal (I.e Doctor is about to murder the patient) we cannot stop a doctor from carrying out an action.

We often "forget" or a pressured into forgetting this basic right. But be careful and cover your butt. Speak to management before you speak to the doctor. Tell management that you cannot in all consience carry out this order and state that you are worried about legal ramifications. DO NOT tell them that you "just don't want to do it." Then speak to the doctor.

I would bet a small pile of Mars Bars that this Doctor will back down and in a hurry. He will bluster and he may threaten but whatever he does STAY COOL.

LOTS AND LOTS OF LUCK TO YOU!!!!

gwenith, BSN, RN · Apr 29, 2003

Force feeding is assualt and battery and you have a right to refuse to carry out a medical order that contravenes your personal beliefs and or the law of the land. I would tell the doctor this, invite him to take the issue up with management but you yourself are not going to be part of it.

Legally you have this right of refusal. No-one can force you to perofrm a task that is contrary to the interests of the patient or runs counter to your beliefs. (i.e. A Catholic nurse cannot be forced to assist in an abortion even if it is legal to do so in that state). Unless it is clearly illegal (I.e Doctor is about to murder the patient) we cannot stop a doctor from carrying out an action.

We often "forget" or a pressured into forgetting this basic right. But be careful and cover your butt. Speak to management before you speak to the doctor. Tell management that you cannot in all consience carry out this order and state that you are worried about legal ramifications. DO NOT tell them that you "just don't want to do it." Then speak to the doctor.

I would bet a small pile of Mars Bars that this Doctor will back down and in a hurry. He will bluster and he may threaten but whatever he does STAY COOL.

LOTS AND LOTS OF LUCK TO YOU!!!!