we often see threads with the title "fired for no reason," or "new grad harassed and fired" or something to that effect. and i always feel at least a little sympathy for the individual involved, if only because i can clearly see by reading between the lines of their self-justifying post that there was a reason for their termination, even if they just don't get it. (there are always a few posts every year from a new grad who is convinced that the reason she's not getting along with her co-workers is that she's just so beautiful they're all jealous, that crowds of mean people are following her around, that she's so wonderful she's going to rock the er or icu or nicu or or and no one sees her wonderfulness clearly, or that some mean, tired, old nurse who ought to retire and get out of the way is targeting her for no good reason.)
i worked with a new grad who was recently terminated for, as she puts it, totally bogus reasons. evidently seeing mine as a sympathetic ear, she went on and on and on about how unfair it was that management expected her to get her act together and actually understand what was going on with her patients. "i've got the time management thing down pat," she said. "i don't know what else they want. they're just picking on me for no good reason." i liked sal, i really did. she was interesting and entertaining and really, really nice. she was also smart, hard-working (when she was at work) and well-educated. but she didn't study outside of work, and really didn't understand what was going on with her patients. i participated in several meetings with her in which it was pointed out that it's not enough to do the tasks, you have to understand why you're doing them. it's not enough to draw the labs. you have to understand what the results mean and then address them. for instance, if the inr is 9, it might explain the nosebleed, the cherry red urine and the fact that the hemoglobin is now 6. giving the coumadin at 6pm as scheduled is not a good thing, even if you gave it right on time and were able to explain to the patient that "it's a blood thinner." i could go on and on.
i got a call from sal today, complaining that she knows she's blackballed for no good reason because she just can't get another job. she wanted me to give her a reference. did she just not get it?
all you new grads out there who are convinced that you're being picked on for no reason, that your more experienced colleagues are just out to get you, and that you're being unfairly targeting, harassed, or picked on, hear this: it may be something you're doing (or not doing) and all those "mean people" are trying to explain it to you so you catch on, learn your job and succeed. we all tried over and over with sal, and she still doesn't get it. are you guilty of the same thing? if your preceptor says you lack critical thinking skills, do you take it to heart, think about it and learn from it? or are you convinced that the entire issue is that she's jealous of your extreme good looks? if your charge nurse charges you with a deficit in your time management skills do you spend time figuring out where you could speed things up a bit? or do you dismiss her as a tired old dog who can't learn a new trick and ought to retire anyway? are you taking to heart and benefitting from any negative feedback you're getting, however poorly given it is? or are you obsessing about how "mean" that nurse was to you and totally overlooking the message?
i wish sal would have "gotten it." she would have been delightful to work with if she had. but right now she's focused on badmouthing her preceptors and the charge nurse, and she still doesn't understand what she did wrong. don't make the same mistakes.
I wrote this reply on a thread in another forum about the difference between nursing school and actual nursing, and I felt it was much better suited here!
I'm in my last semester of nursing school and I'm scared out of my pants! I've had some great clinical experiences, but I don't feel anywhere near prepared. Most of the nurses I talk to in the hospitals say the same thing, they all tell me I will know nothing until I actually work, and I believe them!!! When you think about it, in most of your clinicals, have you ever been assigned more than 2-3 pts?? That is definatley not reality in the real world!! I have come to terms with the fact that I will probably make a fool out of myself somewhere in the first few months or more of my new job as a nurse, I will make sure I become a happy servant :bowingpur to all the seasoned nurses so they will show me the way and I will definately NOT act like a cocky know-it-all just because I now hold a license. The best advice I have gotten was from the nurses I shadowed. I actually got to see a new nurse start her first week at a LTC facility and she walked around like she was the best thing since sliced bread trying to act like a know it all to us students when in reality the only thing that seperated us WAS a license not experience! It really made me think to myself "What is she doing???" Some of these nurses have been here for 10-20 years, put in hard work, tears and sweat and she is walking around with the attitude. Well that changed really quick when they were short staffed, she had 20 + patients and was still not done passing her morning meds at lunchtime. Look up to your superiors when you are done with school, they are going to be the ones who teach you everything you know. Who better to learn from then the ones who do it EVERYDAY!!!
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
what term would you use? serious question. a few days ago i was discussing going into the icu with a nurse who i really respect at my current job. she said the same thing, hates that term................understands why it came to be but still hates it. i thought it was funny. never thought about it really cause i've heard the term so much.
after 200 something posts, i think we finally realize we are talking about the same thing. some newbies, not all.
that was how i felt anyway. no hard feelings. hope all is well with you ruby.
:dlets start a new thread about........well, whatever.
why do we have to have a term for it? serious answer. why not just look at it on a case-by-case basis. if some newbie isn't getting along with some smelly, nasty, fat, tired, old, experienced nurse (did i get all the adjectives?) why not just say that the two individuals involved aren't getting along. maybe the old nurse is mean and nasty. maybe the newbie is being overly sensitive to perceived criticism and failing to recognize what she's bringing to the party. maybe it's a bit of both. saying that "nurses eat their young" encourages a lot of new people who aren't getting along with their co-workers to conclude that it isn't their fault they're not getting along with people, everyone knows that nurses eat their young. when it reality it may very well be that the new person is doing something that irritates the everlivin' $#!+ out of people. (calling in sick 15 minutes after the shift starts, insisting upon having every holiday off, wanting people to help them with their assignment but refusing to be available to help others, failing to "get it" while not understanding that they don't get it, etc.) not saying that "nurses eat their young" encourages the newbie to try to figure out a way to get along with everyone, and that would be a good thing.
why do we have to have a term for it? serious answer. why not just look at it on a case-by-case basis. if some newbie isn't getting along with some smelly, nasty, fat, tired, old, experienced nurse (did i get all the adjectives?) why not just say that the two individuals involved aren't getting along. maybe the old nurse is mean and nasty. maybe the newbie is being overly sensitive to perceived criticism and failing to recognize what she's bringing to the party. maybe it's a bit of both. saying that "nurses eat their young" encourages a lot of new people who aren't getting along with their co-workers to conclude that it isn't their fault they're not getting along with people, everyone knows that nurses eat their young. when it reality it may very well be that the new person is doing something that irritates the everlivin' $#!+ out of people. (calling in sick 15 minutes after the shift starts, insisting upon having every holiday off, wanting people to help them with their assignment but refusing to be available to help others, failing to "get it" while not understanding that they don't get it, etc.) not saying that "nurses eat their young" encourages the newbie to try to figure out a way to get along with everyone, and that would be a good thing.
ok. i vote we eliminate "nurses eat their young" forever and replace it with:
drum roll.........................dddddddddddddddd..........................."mongoose and cobra syndrome".
anyone ever use that phrase? i heard it in pa, but nowhere else "mongoose vs. cobra".
Very well put, Ruby Vee! I was a new grad who had to work extra hard on critical thinking skills. I came into the profession from a completely different career, so had to do extra studying. When I was told this on my first job fresh out of school, I didn't completely understand what I was being told, but did take it to heart. If one is cut out to be a nurse, but isn't quite "getting it" yet, it takes time and study.
I definitely don't claim to know it all -- and there are still times that I am amazed at the knowledge base of some of my co-workers. I have made it a habit to ask scenario questions of my more experienced co-workers on a regular basis in order to "get it" more and more. :-)
Don't worry if there are things that you do not know or skills that you do not have. We can teach you those things. ... But we can't teach you if you aren't willing to learn.
We can teach you what you don't know ... but if you aren't willing to learn (which involves growth and change), there is not much we can do to help you be successful.
Ruby sounds like a very knowledgeable and competent preceptor who 'gets' it herself. I would want her to be MY preceptor if I were doing ICU. She knows her stuff (sorry not sounding so eloquent today....), and she sounds fair and supportive, and she appears to be able to teach. These are the kind of people who should BE preceptors. I was fortunate enough to have a Ruby when I did Med/Surg. If I made a mistake, my preceptor was always there to talk me through it, and I never did make the same one twice. She taught me to take responsibility for the mistakes I made....I wrote up more incident reports on myself than anyone else did on me....:)
These kind of nurses are the ones management should be cultivating and supporting as preceptors instead of looking at the first warm body and saying "ok, YOU are the preceptor". Because I know that there are some horrible preceptors out there, who might be the best nurses ever but are NOT able to teach and guide others. And there are a lot of toxic work environments out there that can absolutely destroy any nurse, much less a new nurse.
I have been pretty fortunate so far to have worked in places that are supportive and positive as a nurse. I've had a very different experience in education, and I have to be the first to admit that my horrible, nightmarish experiences in a toxic work environment in education really color how I respond to others' stories about their bad experiences. If you've been crapped on by pathologic managment (They do really exist in all fields), I think you're more likely to feel instant sympathy and outrage for anyone else who feels crapped on, too. I agree with Ruby that there is always a reason why someone is fired. 99 times out of 100 they are legitimate and prudent reasons. But that one time out of 100 the reasons might not be so legit. I was never fired or threatened with firing, but I quit in self defense because I was so miserable. In 'Sal's case I think it was legitimate and warranted, and Ruby acted appropriately and competently. There are just some people who cannot learn the material and are not suited for a job, regarless of the profession. I think everyone can learn, but the degree to which they are able to learn varies from individual to individual. Not everyone is cut out to be a rocket scientist.....
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
very well put, ruby vee! i was a new grad who had to work extra hard on critical thinking skills. i came into the profession from a completely different career, so had to do extra studying. when i was told this on my first job fresh out of school, i didn't completely understand what i was being told, but did take it to heart. if one is cut out to be a nurse, but isn't quite "getting it" yet, it takes time and study.
i definitely don't claim to know it all -- and there are still times that i am amazed at the knowledge base of some of my co-workers. i have made it a habit to ask scenario questions of my more experienced co-workers on a regular basis in order to "get it" more and more. :-)
nobody knows it all. sounds like you "get it", though!
What term would you use? Serious question. A few days ago I was discussing going into the ICU with a nurse who I really respect at my current job. She said the same thing, hates that term................understands why it came to be but still hates it. I thought it was funny. Never thought about it really cause I've heard the term so much.
After 200 something posts, I think we finally realize we are talking about the same thing. Some newbies, not all.
That was how I felt anyway. No hard feelings. Hope all is well with you Ruby.
:DLets start a new thread about........well, whatever.
It's important to look at the lack of nourishment new nurses get working in some places - that's how the expression got its inception. I remember asking questions that I needed the answer to immediately (40 years ago), and being told 1. I should know that by "this time" and 2. go look it up. Once my evaluation even contained the fact that I asked questions rather than finding the answers out myself.
If new people don't ask questions, how would those with whom they work know where they are in their knowledge of the work. Preceptors need to be assigned to all new nurses until they're comfortable with the adaptation to a new work environment, (if that appears to be "never", than early sharing of that might direct them to an area of practice more suited to their ability). Preceptors definitely need to be educated in methods of teaching and communication that work! When I went to a new area to work, my preceptor and others sat in the nursing station chatting, rather than observing those who needed their oversite. I left that place!
It's important to look at the lack of nourishment new nurses get working in some places - that's how the expression got its inception. I remember asking questions that I needed the answer to immediately (40 years ago), and being told 1. I should know that by "this time" and 2. go look it up. Once my evaluation even contained the fact that I asked questions rather than finding the answers out myself.
If new people don't ask questions, how would those with whom they work know where they are in their knowledge of the work. Preceptors need to be assigned to all new nurses until they're comfortable with the adaptation to a new work environment, (if that appears to be "never", than early sharing of that might direct them to an area of practice more suited to their ability). Preceptors definitely need to be educated in methods of teaching and communication that work! When I went to a new area to work, my preceptor and others sat in the nursing station chatting, rather than observing those who needed their oversite. I left that place!
Yeah, I know what you mean. I was lucky, started in a good environment. Girl I kept in touch with after school was not so lucky. She was laughed at for not being able to find a med in a book she had (it was a pocket reference, only had the very common drugs in it). The med was a BP med, one of the mixed ones. She asked her preceptor where she could look it up. They told her call pharmacy. She went around the corner to call them and overheard the preceptor and other nurses laughing and carrying on about how she would not make it if she has to look up such basic things.
ruby vee's viewpoint comes from someone (unlike me) who has precepted a lot and has become very tired of certain gns who dont seem up to snuff.
i really believe that you have missed ruby's original point here. she isn't attacking anyone, she is just saying that the preceptor/new grad relationship is just that: two sided. both parties have to work at it equally hard. i don't personally know ruby but what i gleaned from her multiple postings is that she is a responsive and responsible preceptor (and, btw, not even sal's actual preceptor!) who participates in a program that worked hard to help sal be successful. but, unfortunately, sal doesn't seem to have been willing to carry her weight as the preceptee. she did not want to continue learning or even to put into practice the things that she presumably learned in school. because of this, she not only failed as a new nurse at this institution but more importantly she endangered the lives of multiple patients. this is, after all, the reason we are all doing what we are doing is it not?
yes, without a doubt there are less than perfect preceptors and all of us have bad days or even just bad moments. but because nearly all of us have experienced an "eat their young" moment at some point in our career, most of us don't want to perpetuate that negative stereotype. some of the posts on here, unfortunately, seem to be doing just that, imho.
I think some people are taking Ruby's viewpoints a tad personally and I think some of the comments made about her viewpoints have been rather rude. She has experienced these things first hand. She's been a nurse for years and probably precepted just as long. I think Ruby knows exactly what she is talking about. Sal was endangering her patients therefore Sal needed to be let go. Hopefully Sal learned a valuable lesson.
i really believe that you have missed ruby's original point here. she isn't attacking anyone, she is just saying that the preceptor/new grad relationship is just that: two sided. both parties have to work at it equally hard. i don't personally know ruby but what i gleaned from her multiple postings is that she is a responsive and responsible preceptor (and, btw, not even sal's actual preceptor!) who participates in a program that worked hard to help sal be successful. but, unfortunately, sal doesn't seem to have been willing to carry her weight as the preceptee. she did not want to continue learning or even to put into practice the things that she presumably learned in school. because of this, she not only failed as a new nurse at this institution but more importantly she endangered the lives of multiple patients. this is, after all, the reason we are all doing what we are doing is it not?
yes, without a doubt there are less than perfect preceptors and all of us have bad days or even just bad moments. but because nearly all of us have experienced an "eat their young" moment at some point in our career, most of us don't want to perpetuate that negative stereotype. some of the posts on here, unfortunately, seem to be doing just that, imho.
yeah. like i said before, the bridge you have to cross as a new nurse is very long. the gap between where schools leave off and where hospitals want you to be as a new hire is large to say the least.
it takes a good preceptor and preceptee to bridge that gap. any time one side or the other falls short, the whole thing comes tumbleing down.
i guess that my view that the way to deal with this is to change the way we precept stems from the belief that vet. nurses have more capacity to change things than new grads. as a new nurse, i was so overwhelmed with......well, everything......i couldnt see the big picture.......with my patients or my career or how what i did affected nursing as a whole. i think a lot of people would agree they felt the same as a new nurse. now, with a little experience under my belt, i see more of the picture.
vet. nurses on the other hand, can, with confindence, insist on being 100% sure that if there is a person who does not cross the bridge, it will not be because the proper precepting process was not in place. then, those who truly deserve to make it will, and those who dont wont. i am still of the belief that our process lets gns who could very well become outstanding nurses fail. to top it off, not only do some people with potential fail, but some who are very smart but not interested in their work get through somehow. its.........discourageing.
FloridaGirl23
33 Posts
I wrote this reply on a thread in another forum about the difference between nursing school and actual nursing, and I felt it was much better suited here!
I'm in my last semester of nursing school and I'm scared out of my pants! I've had some great clinical experiences, but I don't feel anywhere near prepared. Most of the nurses I talk to in the hospitals say the same thing, they all tell me I will know nothing until I actually work, and I believe them!!! When you think about it, in most of your clinicals, have you ever been assigned more than 2-3 pts?? That is definatley not reality in the real world!! I have come to terms with the fact that I will probably make a fool out of myself somewhere in the first few months or more of my new job as a nurse, I will make sure I become a happy servant :bowingpur to all the seasoned nurses so they will show me the way and I will definately NOT act like a cocky know-it-all just because I now hold a license. The best advice I have gotten was from the nurses I shadowed. I actually got to see a new nurse start her first week at a LTC facility and she walked around like she was the best thing since sliced bread trying to act like a know it all to us students when in reality the only thing that seperated us WAS a license not experience! It really made me think to myself "What is she doing???" Some of these nurses have been here for 10-20 years, put in hard work, tears and sweat and she is walking around with the attitude. Well that changed really quick when they were short staffed, she had 20 + patients and was still not done passing her morning meds at lunchtime. Look up to your superiors when you are done with school, they are going to be the ones who teach you everything you know. Who better to learn from then the ones who do it EVERYDAY!!!