we often see threads with the title "fired for no reason," or "new grad harassed and fired" or something to that effect. and i always feel at least a little sympathy for the individual involved, if only because i can clearly see by reading between the lines of their self-justifying post that there was a reason for their termination, even if they just don't get it. (there are always a few posts every year from a new grad who is convinced that the reason she's not getting along with her co-workers is that she's just so beautiful they're all jealous, that crowds of mean people are following her around, that she's so wonderful she's going to rock the er or icu or nicu or or and no one sees her wonderfulness clearly, or that some mean, tired, old nurse who ought to retire and get out of the way is targeting her for no good reason.)
i worked with a new grad who was recently terminated for, as she puts it, totally bogus reasons. evidently seeing mine as a sympathetic ear, she went on and on and on about how unfair it was that management expected her to get her act together and actually understand what was going on with her patients. "i've got the time management thing down pat," she said. "i don't know what else they want. they're just picking on me for no good reason." i liked sal, i really did. she was interesting and entertaining and really, really nice. she was also smart, hard-working (when she was at work) and well-educated. but she didn't study outside of work, and really didn't understand what was going on with her patients. i participated in several meetings with her in which it was pointed out that it's not enough to do the tasks, you have to understand why you're doing them. it's not enough to draw the labs. you have to understand what the results mean and then address them. for instance, if the inr is 9, it might explain the nosebleed, the cherry red urine and the fact that the hemoglobin is now 6. giving the coumadin at 6pm as scheduled is not a good thing, even if you gave it right on time and were able to explain to the patient that "it's a blood thinner." i could go on and on.
i got a call from sal today, complaining that she knows she's blackballed for no good reason because she just can't get another job. she wanted me to give her a reference. did she just not get it?
all you new grads out there who are convinced that you're being picked on for no reason, that your more experienced colleagues are just out to get you, and that you're being unfairly targeting, harassed, or picked on, hear this: it may be something you're doing (or not doing) and all those "mean people" are trying to explain it to you so you catch on, learn your job and succeed. we all tried over and over with sal, and she still doesn't get it. are you guilty of the same thing? if your preceptor says you lack critical thinking skills, do you take it to heart, think about it and learn from it? or are you convinced that the entire issue is that she's jealous of your extreme good looks? if your charge nurse charges you with a deficit in your time management skills do you spend time figuring out where you could speed things up a bit? or do you dismiss her as a tired old dog who can't learn a new trick and ought to retire anyway? are you taking to heart and benefitting from any negative feedback you're getting, however poorly given it is? or are you obsessing about how "mean" that nurse was to you and totally overlooking the message?
i wish sal would have "gotten it." she would have been delightful to work with if she had. but right now she's focused on badmouthing her preceptors and the charge nurse, and she still doesn't understand what she did wrong. don't make the same mistakes.
I work with a lot of male nurses, and I can honestly say I've never seen anything like you are talking about-then again, if I saw it I'd wouldn't put up with it! However the reality is that not everyone is cut out for nursing in some areas and I am sure during the last 16 years you have met some!
As for cxg's comment you are right, the system can make you fail...BUT, if it is the same system for everybody then like nursing school or any other discipline it may not be that nurses area of expertise at that time in their lives. We were told a new grad orientation in our ER costs approximately 40-50k, that is alot of money. So, back to right person right job. It is the responsibility of any nurse if changing to a speciality, or changing areas to bone up on their information and come to work prepared. Ruby's example of INR and coumadin was perfect; it's great the nurse can perform time managment skills, but should know this very simple rule. This is good practice whether you are a nurse, a teacher, or computer technician. Preparation and current knowledge is everything! If it was your parent you'd be appalled!
As far as preparation, I think it is all of our responsibilities to keep learning and be prepared for our jobs. People and technology change, so must our thinking. I feel bad for those who don't make it, but many of them know they are not going to make it...it's usually no secret. If it is, managment, education and preceptors are not doing their job.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
i think that most everyone wants to do a good job, and most of the time when they do not it is because the system failed them. firing a person ruins their life. it should be a last resort. coaching, supervision, better orientation, and problem solving for what caused the event are much more effective. i have seen new nurses horribly bullied with unfair expectations. it takes years to be a good nurse, not a few weeks.
everyone i work with seemed to be trying to get our lpn fired her first year. i suggested they assign one person to be her resource person, and after working with her and getting to know her, and giving her time she has blossomed and we all adore her. you have to support each other and quit looking for someone to blame for system failures. not all nurses are equal. not all nurses learn new jobs at the same rate. recognize the individual's limitations and work with them. help them to learn and grow. that is supposed to be what nurses do!!!
i hope the poster of the original commentary recognizes that there but for the grace of god goes she. any one of us could make a dangerous mistake at any time. it is the nature of our work. any one of us could **** off the wrong new manager at any time and get fired. no one is irreplaceable. you may be brilliant and at the top of your game now, but how about as you get older or have a health problem, or life circumstances that make you sleep deprived or stressed. it takes very little to lose your focus and make a mistake. i hope the girl who lost her job finds another that she is great at.
sometimes, no matter how much you coach, supervise, orient or problem solve, and individual just doesn't get it. in sal's case, she was so far from "getting it" that she didn't even realize she didn't get it. she thought she was being picked on and unfairly targeted. she gave that coumadin on time and knew what it was for didn't she? so how could we fault her for that? no one ever told her the inr was high. no one ever told her she had to look up her labs and know what they meant. (the thing is, i remember hearing her preceptor tell her to make sure she checked the inr before giving the coumadin the day before and the day before that. i remember her preceptor telling her that it isn't enough to draw the labs on time; you actually need to look up the results later.
i'm sorry my topic ruffled your feathers so much. i'm not "brilliant and at the top of my game." i'm older and have health problems. i'm stressed out because when my father died a few weeks ago, that meant i had to fly halfway across the country and take care of my mother who has alzheimer's until she could be placed in assisted living. after nearly three weeks without sleep (mother tended to wander at night at it was 35 degrees below zero outside; plus my folks heated with wood and the stove required tending at frequent intervals and mom needed to be kept away from it so she didn't burn the house down) i finally placed my mother in assisted living and came back home to a home, husband and job that had been neglected for weeks. i'm having difficulty picking up the rhythm of my life.
my whole topic is that some folks just aren't going to "get it" no matter how hard you try to work with them to help them become safe independent practitioners, and some of them are so clueless that they don't even realize that they are the ones with the problem. i wasn't talking about an ordinarily competent nurse who has a bad day or makes an error. believe it or not, i've made many errors over the course of my 3 decades as a nurse.
my whole topic is that some folks just aren't going to "get it" no matter how hard you try to work with them to help them become safe independent practitioners, and some of them are so clueless that they don't even realize that they are the ones with the problem. i wasn't talking about an ordinarily competent nurse who has a bad day or makes an error. believe it or not, i've made many errors over the course of my 3 decades as a nurse.
again 100% right! right person, right fit, for the right job! wanting to do something doesn't mean it's right to do!
It's really refreshing to know that there are so many nurses out there who have never made a mistake! I really want all of you as my nurse!!!!! I ran into a lot of ruthless preceptors when I first started and it got so bad that I got out of nursing for 4 years-I to was working with only perfect nurses who never make mistakes. I was convinced they were out to get me and I'm have never convinced myself otherwise-I've been a nurse for 16 years now and can work anywhere in any hospital including ICU, CVICU, neuro ICU, etc. I found that the only protection that a new nurse has is knowledge and, until then, other nurses will eat you alive. I am a male nurse and think it's especially tough to fit in. The female nurse seems to have this thing to prove with the male nurse and, if they are recently divorced, they especially are out to chop your head off. All of this and we wonder why there is a nursing shortage!!! We run ourselves to death from under staffing and then turn around and run off a new grad. instead of helping them learn from their mistakes. You nurses really need to get a clue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to be the devil's advocate again. This is not my experience as a male nurse. Actually, I got the "women are compasionate, men are hunters" attitude in school more than anywhere else (BSN school, for one semester, not ADN).
If you see managers doing OT, we are definitely in different universes.
OMG!!! Where do you work? I want to be a manager there because everywhere else they stay late, come in early, get calls at night, and so on. All without pay!!! And, they have the constant threat of being canned if their department loses money!!! Fun!!!
Travel nurse. My original state, where I started, was PA. Managers were there 8am to 4pm, with an extended lunch break, NEVER there on weekends or holidays. Hmmm.......and most places I've traveled are the same. Is it that odd? IDK.
Travel nurse. My original state, where I started, was PA. Managers were there 8am to 4pm, with an extended lunch break, NEVER there on weekends or holidays. Hmmm.......and most places I've traveled are the same. Is it that odd? IDK.
Yes it is odd. The manager's in my facility routinely put in more than 40 hours, plus they usually are called at home at 5:00AM about day shift staffing and again around 10:00pm about night shift staffing. They get beeped on the weekends when state inspectors or JACHO comes in and when the ER is about to go on divert. It's a 24/7 beeper. There might be days they cut out early, but they've earned it.
Today my manager was in at 7:00 for some early meeting and was stil there at 4pm when I left dealing with an altercation between a couple of staff members. You couldn't pay me enough.
in texas, you can be fired "at will" since it is an "at will" state, meaning that they can fire you for no reason and you can't do anything about it at all. most managers are told to start a "paper trail" by writing you up and after 3 write ups you're out. or you can be fired for whatever, right on the spot. it also gives the employee the right to quit without having to have a reason to do so and no notice is required. of course they will mark you as a do not rehire so it's better not to burn your bridges.
If Sal goes into management, making 5 or 6 times the pay a clinical nurse does without going anywhere near a pt.
Then, can it really be said she is the one who "didnt get it"?
Yes.
The thing is managers don't make five or six times what a floor nurse makes- sometimes they make less.
I've had a few managers whom I know made less than me. My best friend worked in payroll and showed me. I know that wasn't too kosher, but I kept it to myself.
Also, when I have been offered mgmt positions in the past, it would have been a pay cut to take any of the offers. I have never accepted a mgmt offer- I just don't want to go over to the dark side.
The microcosm of nursing that this post presents, illustrates how useful allnurses.com is for us all to take a better look at ourselves, our working environments, and others with whom we work.
Until Leslie mentioned it, I had no idea who Ruby Vee was, that she was working in ICU, or that the terminated person she referred to had a preceptor or not. The only thing I knew was that Ruby seemed a likely person upon whom a trampled new grad could relieve herself. That quality is exceptional!
With the shortage of nurses what it is, I would have liked to know what remediation was done to keep someone who needed a better grip, to get that.
Ruby, if she cornered you in the locker area while you were getting ready to leave work, it's understandable that you found her dump annoying. Usually when someone dumps on us, we do others that favor. That could be why you wrote this post. (At the risk of being disrespectful.) Reading between the lines and with Leslie's help I get that you really want new grads to achieve their potential.
It takes a lot of insight for someone with an inflated sense of who he/she is, to take a look at their shortcomings. A reason is needed, and the opening in the case presented was termination. Boy, is that ever a wake-up call! One of the best ways to make a negative situation more positive, is to use "exit interviews" as a means to do that. However the concept has gotten lost in the interest of expediency. Someone who has taken a space in a nursing school, passed her exams and got a job - all pluses. She needs support to continue her career. Even though there was good reason for her to be disciplined, as others have pointed out, it was something out of which everyone could get a lot.
If there are any of you out there who manage units, I'd like to know if you feel a responsibility for our profession that would motivate you to make a difference for seemingly clueless nurses just out of school who don't make the grade in their first job or 2. Unfortunately there's no remedial course for those unfortunates who don't get the difference between the academic learning they've had and its real life application. That's the problem for graduates of 2 year AA proigrams, more than 4 year grads, possibly - yet they're clumped together in the workaday world and expected to fly in unison.
.thumb.jpg.755b83f43c9f3860c778e2fcb2022ecb.jpg){kind=small}
MAISY, RN-ER, BSN, RN
1,082 Posts
Wow JB you really must have had a bad time!
I work with a lot of male nurses, and I can honestly say I've never seen anything like you are talking about-then again, if I saw it I'd wouldn't put up with it! However the reality is that not everyone is cut out for nursing in some areas and I am sure during the last 16 years you have met some!
As for cxg's comment you are right, the system can make you fail...BUT, if it is the same system for everybody then like nursing school or any other discipline it may not be that nurses area of expertise at that time in their lives. We were told a new grad orientation in our ER costs approximately 40-50k, that is alot of money. So, back to right person right job. It is the responsibility of any nurse if changing to a speciality, or changing areas to bone up on their information and come to work prepared. Ruby's example of INR and coumadin was perfect; it's great the nurse can perform time managment skills, but should know this very simple rule. This is good practice whether you are a nurse, a teacher, or computer technician. Preparation and current knowledge is everything! If it was your parent you'd be appalled!
As far as preparation, I think it is all of our responsibilities to keep learning and be prepared for our jobs. People and technology change, so must our thinking. I feel bad for those who don't make it, but many of them know they are not going to make it...it's usually no secret. If it is, managment, education and preceptors are not doing their job.