nurses who self injure

Soleilpie · Mar 12, 2005

wow! i was so angry after reading your post sax. i cannot believe that everyone automatically believes this other nurse over you because of this perception that if you have a mental illness, you must also be a liar or untrustworthy period! what a shame! if anyone needs to be scrutinized, it's your co-worker. i'm not sure how this all works, but i wonder why the don didn't come talk to you first before sending out the crisis team and believing your co-worker? a nurse who lies should not be working as a nurse. i hope you are able to pursue this to the fullest extent. this just can't happen to anyone else. the doctor who is caring for you now could probably help you out with this as well. good luck sax! i'll be thinking of you.

ARNPsomeday · Mar 12, 2005

sax, i must agree with everyone. it is just plain w-r-o-n-g! this other nurse doesn't just need to be disciplined, she also needs a serious course in ethics. i wonder how she managed psyc rotation during clinicals?

please do avail yourself of all the resources the others have posted. nami sounds like a good option, they can guide you to other resources such as legal etc. and be part of your support network.

> whatever you do, stay very safe.

please keep us up to date.

danu3 · Mar 12, 2005

Hi Sax,

Another thought. I think the highest priority is actually your health. If the stress of bringing legal actions actually increase significantly your chance of self-harm again, then it might not be worth it because the nurse who started all this would have "won". If that nurse can do that to you, she do it again (heck, you might not be the first one) and one of these time, she'll pick on the wrong person and she'll run into a brick wall.

Also, if working at that same place now also significantly increase the chances of your self-harm again, then start looking for another place where they value you more.

We are all jumping mad here obviously and would love to see that nurse have legal action against her. But after calming down a bit, your health is the most importent. Don't sacrifice yourself because of this bad nurse. People here on this board do not want the nursing profession to lose another good nurse.

-Dan

ps. Hey, don't we have Nursing Attornies on this boards?

danu3 · Mar 12, 2005

hello
i dont mind if i lose the job, as i dont want to work at a facility where things like this go on, but i am scared now that the DON might ring my other place of work and tell them i am not fit for work. can she do this? can she ring the board and have me suspended because it is her opinion i am "mentally unstable" even tho it is not the case, and there is no evidence of this?? i havent done anything wrong, except a HX of SI years ago...i am on anti depressant meds curently, wiill this make me look bad?? i know people who have been de-registered due to mental health problems, and it scares me that it might happen to me. surely this cant be right! i havent done anything! what can i do to show them i am ok??

The key here is not whether you are on meds or not. The key here is whether your symtoms is under control. If the board investigate, here are some suggestions:

* This suggestion is comming from someone who done internal auditing for a while in another field. Be cooperative, but not too cooperative. The reason is that you do not want to give the interviewer any reasons to suspect you are hiding something. If the interviewer is suspecting you are hiding something, the interviewer will dig. That means, if they ask A, you answer A, not B. If you are not clear what they are asking, just ask the to rephrase because you are not sure you understand. As for not too cooperative, that means if they ask you A, you again give them A and anot A, B, C, and D. If they want B, C, and D, they will ask for them later. If you act professional all these time, hopefully the interviewer will have enough sense to know the problem is not you.

* If they ask you about your meds, then be open about it. But see if you have a chance maybe later on to show them that your symtoms is under control (here I am breaking the above sugesstion of not being too cooperative). Here you have to think ahead of time in terms of evidence that your symtoms are under control.

* Just an example, if ask about your cuts, show them and mentioned that they are old. Not only that, suggest to them to have a qualify person examine you physically for other areas of cuts. They will find that any cuts are old which means your symptoms are under control.

* Assuming the board find you ok, then you would professionally ask the board to investigate that nurse for lying, for whatever is reasonable.

* As for this being on your records in both places. The place that treat you good and not believe the wild story, ask them to write something that go against the allergation. Ideally, if I was your future employer, and I see this documented, I would want to see how you handle this because that tells me your ability to handle situation in a professional manner or not.

* With regard to the place that treat you good, after all of these things are over. I would give them a professional thank you card or something that express your appreciation for standing by you.

* About all the denials the other hospitals (like they call your other place of employement already) and sounded like they are lying out of their teeth. Tell them professionally that you believe them (you are giving them the benefit of the doubt) but you have hard evidence that is not true as you are discussing with your laywer. So the only reasonable conclusion is that there is a "leak" somewhere. So they should really investigate and bring appropriate actions that will satisfy you so that both the hospital and you can spare the energy in court and concentrate on the patients.

These are just top of my head ideas and I am sure some of them are not good ideas. So take whatever ideas seemed right to you.

Remember, your health is the most important and we don't want to lose a good nurse.

-Dan

mattsmom81 · Mar 12, 2005

Stories like this make me so very angry. If someone's history includes anything outside the 'perfect nurse' boundaries, someone feels justified in ruining them.

I wish the OP well and hope you come out of this with some satisfaction whether you decide to fight it or not. I know its tiring to keep fighting and you have to do whats best for you. You have my support. It hurts when someone goes after us 'just because they can', for no good reason and I know how that feels.

Such a 'caring profession' we're in eh. :stone

danu3 · Mar 12, 2005

In case you decided to go the legal route,

take a look

http://www.discovernursing.com/jnj-specialtyID_180-dsc-specialty_detail.aspx

It has a number of legal nursing links. Maybe some of those links will have the appropriate contacts.

-Dan

sax_journey · Mar 13, 2005

Thanks for the support and encouragement from everyone, it makes such a difference. thanks for the links. I am in Australia so many of the links are not much use to me i am still having difficulty with the union getting someone to come to the meeting, perhaps i will bring my lawyer, i will call him on monday and see if this is possible, and how much $$$ it will cost me. i will let you know how the meeting goes...

Thanks for your help :)

Skye

SusanJean · Mar 13, 2005

Thanks for the support and encouragement from everyone, it makes such a difference. thanks for the links. I am in Australia so many of the links are not much use to me i am still having difficulty with the union getting someone to come to the meeting, perhaps i will bring my lawyer, i will call him on monday and see if this is possible, and how much $$$ it will cost me. i will let you know how the meeting goes...
Thanks for your help :)
Skye

You have lots of support here!

I don't know how your attorneys work there -- but if yours said you have a good case, suggest a contingency fee. (Gets paid if there is a settlement.) That is how it often works here. Negotiate if you have too.

Good luck, keep us posted.

SJ

Psi · Mar 15, 2005

posted in error

Psi · Mar 15, 2005

"crazy"... this just make my blood boil comming from a nurse. That nurse must barely passed her psych rotation in nursing school... Doesn't she know clinically there is no such thing as "crazy"?
Nurses like that give the nursing profession a real bad name. Ironic isn't it in this case... we have a "mentally healthy" nurse who is a bad nurse and a "mentally ill" nurse who has her symptom under control turn out to be the good nurse. If I was sick, I'll take you as my nurse anytime over the other nurse.
I applaud you for having recover enough from your illness to have a career. Not just any career, a nursing career.
Just a wild thought, how bad are those cuts of yours? I wonder if you can put tatoo around them or something so that it becomes a work of art instead if people happened to see them...
-Dan
ps. Another thought... legally, I think certain type of mental illness also qualify under "disability". If your illness somehow qualify, your employer could be in big trouble under the antidiscrimination laws dealing with disability.

"crazy" does exist it is a lay colloquialism that covers psychosis and mania. Self harming on the other hand isn't necessarily an illness and is more often and indication of personality disorder, it appears that it is you who is guilty of jumping to conclusions.

There have been a number of cases in the UK (e.g. Beverly Allit) were nurses have murdered or harmed patients for their own gratification. Reports on these incidents have consistently shown that signs of severe PD were ignored.

If it has been six years since previous episodes then it is quite likely that it was just a short term crisis, but those facts can be quickly established.

Not everyone who cuts has a PD, however, it is not an issue that is to be taken lightly and in the balance between the interests of the patient and the interests of the nurse it is important that these issues are looked into when indicated and a collection of scars from previous self harm does indicate that this is worth further scrutiny.

As for disability discrimination, it is perfectly justifiable for an employer not wanting to employ someone who is currently self harming or at significant risk. Patients need nurses who can cope with life and aren't competing with them in not being able to cope.

sax_journey · Mar 15, 2005

I am neither currently self harming, nor at significant risk, as my employer could have verified by discussiong this with me privatly rather than broadcasting my mental health history, and unsubstantiated slanderous allegations made against me by other staff members. I dont care how this is justified, it is wrong.

As for "coping with life" it has been my experience that SI is a coping mechanism, and a very effective one. Everyone has different ways to cope with life, some people drink, some smoke, some people feel the need to belittle others to make themselves feel better.. If SI helps someone cope, them whats the problem?? its not hurting anyone else.

Yes we all know about Beverly Allit. And yes it is very sad for the innocent young children whose lives were taken by her. I count myself very fortunate that i dont live in the UK as i know there are laws about nurses and SI which stem from this case. I think this is a tragedy, and is robbing the world of many caring nurses. Beverly had many other mental health issues other than SI. I can hardly believe you would insinuate that all nurses with PD are a danger to patients....And in any case the majority of deaths that occur as a result of munchausens by proxy are caused by parents not nurses. Perhaps you think all people who SI and have PD's should have custody of their children taken away????

Unfortunatly there are some very disturbed people in the world, but i am not one of them, and neither are the majority of people who SI, or who have a PD. I know many nurses who have hx of SI and PD, and these are some of the most caring and competant nurses i know.

Psi · Mar 15, 2005

I can hardly believe you would insinuate that all nurses with PD are a danger to patients

I would say without hesitation that suffering from a PD does very much make someone unsuitable to work as a nurse.