Pros and Cons of Excelsior Program

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per request, here is a sticky where you can feel free to post the pros and cons of why or why you do not like the program. please keep all posts to this area.

please remember that you are debating the topic only, no personal attacks will be tolerated.

play nice, or do not play.

Specializes in icu.

i love this discussion. i've been a psych nurse for almost 3 years and the only thing you need to know about psych is "don't throw gasoline on a fire". who wants to live in california anyways it's very expensive. i'm guessing in 3-5-10 years ec grads will be accepted in california. untill then they can just pay out extra money for their nursing shortage. that will just jack up the cost of living even more.

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I have to disagree with a lot of this ...

I don't know how your program was run, but that's not the case in my program. For one thing, we've got to get re-checked off on all skills in fourth semester in the hospital. If you don't do those skills (again), you don't go to preceptorship. I'm not sure why people would worry about errors since an RN is with you at all times. They're not going to let you screw up because it's on their license.

Clinicals are far from perfect. But I also work as an extern and I learn a lot from both. The more exposure, the better. Some clinicals are worthless but, it's usually because you have a low census one day or, you do occassionally get an RN or an instructor that's not particularly helpful. It's gonna happen.

But I wouldn't trade my ICU rotation for anything. You usually can't get externships at ICU so, for me, and it was a phenomenal experience. And I'm sorry but, I do think theory concurrent with clinical is really worthwhile. You read about dopamine drips and respirators in the book, but it's nothing like seeing how it works for real the next day. It does really help you tie it all together. I'd much rather be there while I'm studying it than try to remember all the details one or two years later. And you do really learn better when you actually see and do it the next day.

Even the psych rotation has been beneficial. I mean ... you can study all these drugs all you want. But it doesn't come close to going to the facility and consulting with the doctor about why he prescribed various meds, how he came up with a particular diagnosis. How do you rule out a medical condition or drug addiciton versus psychosis. There's a lot of things you learn that aren't in the books ... like new drugs that make patients really aggressive that our textbooks fail to mention. And talking to the patients and seeing these conditions first hand, well ... I certainly haven't seen anything like it on med-surg floor. It's certainly broadened my perspective.

I mean ... to me, at least, these clinicals are priceless. Not to mention, you get to go into all these hospitals and ask the RN's how they like working there, etc. You find out how different each facility can be. It's great for making career decisions about where you want to work.

:typing

Lizz

What is your point and what does this have to do with the pros and cons of the EC program?

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i love this discussion. i've been a psych nurse for almost 3 years and the only thing you need to know about psych is "don't throw gasoline on a fire". who wants to live in california anyways it's very expensive. i'm guessing in 3-5-10 years ec grads will be accepted in california. untill then they can just pay out extra money for their nursing shortage. that will just jack up the cost of living even more.

Thats an interesting point. I wonder what would happen if all 6,000 of us decided to go to another state?

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you know what's vastly better than clinicals? actually working for real!

Ok, so how many jobs would I have to take to get exposure to the following areas that I've already been exposed to in clinicals. Let's see:

L&D, Peds, NICU, Med-Surg, Telemetry, Cath Lab, DOU, PACU, ICU, ER, Psych, OR ...

That's at least 12 jobs. All I'm saying is that clinicals are great for figuring out what you want to do and making career decisions.

:typing

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Lizz

What is your point and what does this have to do with the pros and cons of the EC program?

That clinicals concurrent with theory are beneficial. Since EC doesn't have that, it's one the reasons California disallowed the program.

:typing

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Ok, so how many jobs would I have to take to get exposure to the following areas that I've already been exposed to in clinicals. Let's see:

L&D, Peds, NICU, Med-Surg, Telemetry, Cath Lab, DOU, PACU, ICU, ER, Psych, OR ...

That's at least 12 jobs. All I'm saying is that clinicals are great for figuring out what you want to do and making career decisions.

:typing

you'd be stunned how much exposure i got as a medic. and not in a clinical. right on scene, as a first responder, a job where you've got to diagnose and make decisions quickly, with only a physican consult via radio. and without the benefit of diagnostic tests. working almost anywhere in healthcare, as a medic, lpn or rt, you get tons of exposure. that's a simple reality that you can't ignore, and the nln has recognized this reality.

let's take us, for example. are you saying your experience in l&d clinicals will differentiate you in the nursing profession to the extent that you should be licensed and i shouldn't? how much time did you spend in l&d? are you ready to be an l&d nurse? (yes, and i also did l&d clinicals as a medic). let's say you can find an area where you have more exposure. what does that prove? what about the fact that i'd smoke you in cardiology? does that mean you shouldn't be licensed?

all you got was a tour, not thorough training. we're talking entry level, not experienced nurse. when you get out, you're going to go into a TRAINING PROGRAM FOR NEW GRADUATES. that's all you'll be qualified for. it's all i'm qualified for. i have no illusions otherwise. a year of med surge is what a new grad needs.

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That clinicals concurrent with theory are beneficial. Since EC doesn't have that, it's one the reasons California disallowed the program.

:typing

Once again and I dont want to keep beating this drum, people who have been admitted in the EC program have already had clinical time, and that is why these people are admitted in the EC program. California needs to get with the program, the labor department said there is going to going to be a nursing shortage for a long time.

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you'd be stunned how much exposure i got as a medic. and not in a clinical. right on scene, as a first responder, a job where you've got to diagnose and make decisions quickly, with only a physican consult via radio. and without the benefit of diagnostic tests. working almost anywhere in healthcare, as a medic, lpn or rt, you get tons of exposure. that's a simple reality that you can't ignore, and the nln has recognized this reality.

let's take us, for example. are you saying your experience in l&d clinicals will differentiate you in the nursing profession to the extent that you should be licensed and i shouldn't? how much time did you spend in l&d? are you ready to be an l&d nurse? (yes, and i also did l&d clinicals as a medic). let's say you can find an area where you have more exposure. what does that prove? what about the fact that i'd smoke you in cardiology? does that mean you shouldn't be licensed?

all you got was a tour, not thorough training. we're talking entry level, not experienced nurse. when you get out, you're going to go into a TRAINING PROGRAM FOR NEW GRADUATES. that's all you'll be qualified for. it's all i'm qualified for. i have no illusions otherwise. a year of med surge is what a new grad needs.

Boy, did you ever hit the nail on the head.

Living a sheltered existence in school clinicals and thinking this somehow makes you more qualified than someone with the work experience is just....well lets see....can't find a word that sounds...lets see, that's just STUPID!

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Boy, did you ever hit the nail on the head.

Living a sheltered existence in school clinicals and thinking this somehow makes you more qualified than someone with the work experience is just....well lets see....can't find a word that sounds...lets see, that's just STUPID!

heh. i'd agree. it puts the "um" in dumb. :).

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Boy, did you ever hit the nail on the head.

Living a sheltered existence in school clinicals and thinking this somehow makes you more qualified than someone with the work experience is just....well lets see....can't find a word that sounds...lets see, that's just STUPID!

Actually, there's a lot to be said for clinicals and other school related field trips. One time when I was in 6th grade, our class went to the NASA science fair. After that, I really wanted to be a spaceman. :lol2:

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Once again and I dont want to keep beating this drum, people who have been admitted in the EC program have already had clinical time, and that is why these people are admitted in the EC program.

If you're referring to work experience as "clinical time," that's not entirely true. EC only requires the LICENSE. You don't have to work a day if you don't want to. That was part of the problem in California.

Living a sheltered existence in school clinicals and thinking this somehow makes you more qualified than someone with the work experience is just....well lets see....can't find a word that sounds...lets see, that's just STUPID!

WHEN did I ever say that? I didn't. Before you start misquoting me and calling people names, why don't you read the posts again.

I've said it before and I'll say it again since people don't seem to pay attention. Of course acute care LVN's with ten experience were not the problem in California. The problem was people getting quickie licenses like MA's and EMT's who never even worked in those positions because EC never required it.

Do I think those people would benefit from school clinicals ... yes. Obviously. Are school clinicals merely a "tour" and completely worthless? No. Does that make me an experienced RN or more qualified than an experienced RN. Of course not. I NEVER said that.

Before yet another thread gets shut down ... why don't people actually read the posts and quit with the insults. It would probably avoid a lot of trouble.

:typing

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The problem was people getting quickie licenses like MA's and EMT's who never even worked in those positions because EC never required it.

Please provide an authority or reference that specifys in writing related to the problem you speak.

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