Pregnancy Discrimination - Interview

[Art_Vandelay]

I have read more than a few threads on here and quite frankly I am a little appauled at the attitudes. No wonder women ask if they should hide the pregnancy! They're discriminated by female nursing collegues right from the start and treated as though it were 1950. "No, you should wait until after you have the baby." Well, I think most nurses on here are used to a higher standard of living than a cardboard box, and that's what happens when you can't pay bills. I have an interview scheduled soon and still waver on what to do. It is for a per diem position and it is not an oncology floor. I think honesty is best, but in this economy, just because I'm pregnant doesn't mean I want to put nursing on hold for a year while my skills dwindle. It's already competitive enough! I could understand the NM being worried about staffing shortages, but I never called off a day in my previous position...why would I call in sick now(my horrible vomiting has passed.) Here's hoping I have decent luck with per diem.

[pumpkinseeds]

BlueDevil, I suggest you familiarize yourself with Pregnancy Discrimination Act, which states "an employer cannot refuse to hire a pregnant woman because of her pregnancy [or] because of a pregnancy-related condition." What you did was illegal.

I find it interesting you are angry with the employee for her supposed dishonesty, yet YOU lied to her regarding the reason you fired her. She had no legal obligation to reveal her pregnancy during the interview. I don't think she had a moral one either. Workers leave the workplace, take time off, go from full- to part-time, and move all the time. If you hired the same employee, and instead of her pregnancy she revealed to you that her husband was terminally ill, and she would eventually need 12 weeks off under FMLA - would you have fired her then? Wny not? It's the same inconvience to you

Wpmen fought hard to get equal work for equal pay and to end things like pregnancy discrimination. I thought those years of a woman being fired or deprived of an education for having the audacity to get pregnant were long behind us. And we do this to each other. It might as well be 1912, with some of the attitudes I've heard expressed here.

"I know a manager who will hire male nurses or menopausal women of those of child bearing age."

"Maybe I'll hire a male this time."

[Lynx25, LPN]

The pregnant employee I spoke of earlier was definitely given preferential treatment; she was always assigned the easiest patients and never had to do any lifting. She was babied and milked it. (Pun intended.). But that's not what I'm going to do.

Understand that this rant is not directed to OP, who seems to be a decent person.

I don't understand why some people feel they have a RIGHT to pop out as many kids as they can, and then demand that everyone make exceptions for them, coddle them, and generally let them get away with murder. I just don't get it. If you can't afford to be out of work, how actually planning ahead and grabbing a pack of condoms. Is it that hard?

Yes, yes I know 'accidents happen', and that's not what I'm talking about here. You KNOW the woman who has been plopped in a chair half the shift, and is whining to the other staff how she JUSSSSST sat down, and could they go get that light for her? The type that when they actually squeeze the kid out- then demand all of the holidays off, because they have a FAMILY, and what kind of monster would keep a mommy from their child on Christmas?

TLDR: Popping out a kid does not make you special.

[Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM]

I have lots of friends that are soon-to-be nurses that when they try to find a job while pregnant, I don't understand at all, the debate "should I mention this at the interview?".

My reply is always the same: Only if you don't really want the job.

While there are SOME EXCEPTIONS to an employer knowing at the interview that a nurse is pregnant and them still getting the job, I would be willing to bet you'll find 10x more nurses (and recruiters) that will tell you that it's not a good idea.

Pregnancy discrimination laws were designed because THE MAJORITY OF EMPLOYERS WOULD NOT MAKE ACCOMMODATIONS. Not because they were honest. When employers are honest you don't need a law.

I'm not saying this to be mean, but it just seems like newly pregnant women are all-too eager to announce the pregnancy and over-analyze the complications that it will bring. The vast majority of nurses will not work on an oncology floor and I for one, have VOLUNTEERED to take assignments from pregnant nurses even though that hospital policy allowed it, but because I still didn't think it was safe. To me, that is just being a good co-worker.

I have also worked with nurses that treated pregnancy as if it were a disease. This tends to be more common with first-time mothers or moms who are in bad relationships, for some reason. This is the best way to lose the respect of your co-workers by milking it for everything that it is worth.

If someone feels THAT BAD, they need to see their OB. It can be a sign of something more. I worked with a co-worker who wasn't seeing a very good OB (but she insisted he was great)...at 7 months she was dragging and I mean dragging....whenever she would get upset at something, her face would flush blood red...which was new for her. Her appearance drastically changed and I told her one day, "Go home!!!! Call your doctor!!! Something is wrong...nobody should feel that bad at 7 months." She only went after I told her, "If you don't call your husband, I will."

Turned out she had preeclampsia and was hospitalized the day she went and spent one month on bed rest before she had a preemie.

[BCRNA]

Don't tell your interviewer your pregnant. It may be illegal to discriminate, but only if they admit to it. Many nurse managers already prefer hiring men. They tend to get along better in groups and are career oriented. Women can be career oriented too, but they tend to be more family oriented and define themselves by their family. Men define themselves by their career, and they don't take maternity leave or say they can't do many things because their pregnant. This isn't sexist, just how men and women are different. Men are less likely to create drama, any female nurse who has worked in a mostly male unit would agree.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

I didn't interpret the "family friendly" reference to infer easier assignments for pregnant women. I read it to mean that some organizations are more flexible/understanding with maternity leave or not immediately judgmental towards hiring pregnant women; maybe naive or ego-centric thinking on my part. But I can understand and remember feeling frustrated with a certain pregnant nurse on the unit getting all walkie talkies while I had 3 total cares in addition to other patients.

Are these "family friendly" institutions also more flexible, understanding and nonjudgemental to the nurse whose husband has early onset Alzheimer's and might have to hurry home to sit with him because the caregiver left early? Are they as friendly and understanding to the nurse who has an ailing mother at home to care for? How about a dying and beloved dog? Pregnancy lasts nine months. You might not want to base long term decisions on something so temporary.

[ShayRN]

When I had my son, 11 years ago, I worked on a cardiothoracic step down unit. I did not take any isolations patients, I did not do any heavy lifting. Not because I refused, but because my co-workers stepped up and did it for me. I would return the favor by starting a difficult IV for them or by helping them get caught up on a med pass. Then, guess what? I had the baby and returned to work. He was my last child. Within two years all those lovely co-workers were having babies of their own, I took all the isolation patients and did their heavy lifting so that they wouldn't hurt themselves or the precious babies they were carrying. No, "popping out a kid" doesn't make you special. But, that baby IS special. One of the most special gifts ever and I don't care what anyone says, you protect your child from the womb to the grave. I am actually appalled by the comments here. Just goes to show, women (not nurses) women are our own worst enemies.

[dirtyhippiegirl, BSN, RN]

Are these "family friendly" institutions also more flexible, understanding and nonjudgemental to the nurse whose husband has early onset Alzheimer's and might have to hurry home to sit with him because the caregiver left early? Are they as friendly and understanding to the nurse who has an ailing mother at home to care for? How about a dying and beloved dog? Pregnancy lasts nine months. You might not want to base long term decisions on something so temporary.

Didn't you get the memo? Having a baby is the most important thing that you will ever do as a woman and protecting it from womb to tomb is sacrosanct. Jeez.

After my mom died, literally the first shift, I was given a precipitous d/c from our unit to home with hospice by our charge. I told her that I wasn't comfortable, that the patient's history was too much like my own mom's and if the patient actually died while in my care, I'd probably lose it. Still had to do it because no one else wanted it. And now I'm stuck taking total cares, isolation pts, etc. for the same charge who is now pregnant. I bite my tongue and all that but, holy crap. "Family friendly" means so much more than hiring pregnant nurses or not firing nurses who've been out on FMLA/pregnancy leave longer than they've actually been working for any given few years.

[Lynx25, LPN]

When I had my son, 11 years ago, I worked on a cardiothoracic step down unit. I did not take any isolations patients, I did not do any heavy lifting. Not because I refused, but because my co-workers stepped up and did it for me. I would return the favor by starting a difficult IV for them or by helping them get caught up on a med pass. Then, guess what? I had the baby and returned to work. He was my last child. Within two years all those lovely co-workers were having babies of their own, I took all the isolation patients and did their heavy lifting so that they wouldn't hurt themselves or the precious babies they were carrying. No, "popping out a kid" doesn't make you special. But, that baby IS special. One of the most special gifts ever and I don't care what anyone says, you protect your child from the womb to the grave. I am actually appalled by the comments here. Just goes to show, women (not nurses) women are our own worst enemies.

The baby is special to YOU, but your coworkers are not responsible for it. The baby is not a miraculous surprise you were suddenly struck in the uterus with, however religious you may be. It's simply a choice you and your whomever chose to make.

People need to take responsibility for their own actions. Women did all of this fighting for equal rights in the workplace, and then half of us turn around and expect special treatment for being a woman.

[Art_Vandelay]

Are these "family friendly" institutions also more flexible, understanding and nonjudgemental to the nurse whose husband has early onset Alzheimer's and might have to hurry home to sit with him because the caregiver left early? Are they as friendly and understanding to the nurse who has an ailing mother at home to care for? How about a dying and beloved dog? Pregnancy lasts nine months. You might not want to base long term decisions on something so temporary.

I see your point. Quite honestly, I wish employers were. Having a family member with Alzheimer's can be extremely trying emotionally on family and even from a care giver's outsider perspective it is quite heartbreaking. And an ailing mother? I watched a close friend's mom die of ALS within a few years of diagnosis. Yes, my friend who cared for her deserved special treatment. She had a mom who was dying and losing function daily in front of her; I still can't imagine watching a parent go through that. She was always very private and I never quite knew how to talk about it with her. I am an animal lover (my animals are my child) so I need no convincing that animals deserve the utmost of treatment too. Yes, in my pretend world, nurses(pregnant or not) would have a managable patient load and be able to spend quality time with their patients, at the expense of corporate "fat cats" ludicrous pay check. Yes, you can take home a little less profit so that my working conditions are more decent. But, I'll come back to reality...conditions are more often cut throat, competitive, and employer friendly. Sigh.

[Art_Vandelay]

I have lots of friends that are soon-to-be nurses that when they try to find a job while pregnant, I don't understand at all, the debate "should I mention this at the interview?"....

Call me crazy, but I am seeking this position to maintain a skill set, not for a paycheck. (But I understand the paycheck motive too.) I don't want to come on AN complaining, "I've been gone so long, and I can't cut it on the floor. I can't place an IV, NG, etc. " Or more importantly, have my med/surg knowledge base fall behind. Quite frankly, I would be embarrassed with experience if I couldn't do a simple skill like starting an IV after a few tries because I hadn't placed one in a year. (No offense to people whose IV skills aren't the strongest.) That is more my concern. So, let the employer watch me disappear for six to eight weeks but not have to provide a long initial training period. Or, have the employer treat me like a new grad and give me a LONG orientation period a year from now. I've thought about alternatives, like BSN with clinical components, but the local ones I've found are expensive! My partner didn't see the logic in applying for jobs now either, but he works in a technical field, so he should understand the concept of technical dinosaur. Furthermore, I don't see hospital volunteers placing IVs, dropping NGs or providing patient education. Plus, cooking, cleaning, shopping, and brewing baby(although I am excited) isn't challenging enough for me.

[Art_Vandelay]

Didn't you get the memo? Having a baby is the most important thing that you will ever do as a woman and protecting it from womb to tomb is sacrosanct. Jeez.

....

I feel guilty for laughing at this. I'm happy about my baby, but tend to gag or roll my eyes when I overhear pregnant women in all their excitement. "Yay, life is wonderful; baby is born and all is at peace with the world." Um, not really. A LOT of the world is still suffering, and while I have cause for excitement, life isn't wonderful for a lot of struggling people here and abroad.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

When I had my son, 11 years ago, I worked on a cardiothoracic step down unit. I did not take any isolations patients, I did not do any heavy lifting. Not because I refused, but because my co-workers stepped up and did it for me. I would return the favor by starting a difficult IV for them or by helping them get caught up on a med pass. Then, guess what? I had the baby and returned to work. He was my last child. Within two years all those lovely co-workers were having babies of their own, I took all the isolation patients and did their heavy lifting so that they wouldn't hurt themselves or the precious babies they were carrying. No, "popping out a kid" doesn't make you special. But, that baby IS special. One of the most special gifts ever and I don't care what anyone says, you protect your child from the womb to the grave. I am actually appalled by the comments here. Just goes to show, women (not nurses) women are our own worst enemies.

I'm so happy for you that you had wonderful co-workers who stepped in and helped you out when you were pregnant. And that you're happy to help them. However, some of us would find it difficult to do ALL the isolations and heavy lifting in our unit because several other nurses were pregnant and the same time. And I don't think that's my job, either. The fact that you or someone else is fortunate enough to be able to procreate when you want to is fabulous for you . . . but if you cannot or will not do your job because of your "precious cargo", then you need to vacate the job and let someone who is willing to do it DO it.

None of the comments here have indicated that babies are not special gifts to their parents. But they're not special gifts to your colleagues and to everyone else in the world. I find myself appalled at the notion that failure to procreate makes me less special than anyone else. And the women are our own worst enemies part -- SOME women are other women's worst enemy. There's more to being a woman -- and having a family -- than breeding.